Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Tells/Behavior, hosted by: Zachary Elwood Discussions about poker tells, behavior, and psychology, with a focus on live poker.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2016, 04:27 AM   #1
flushymcacey
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 78
optics, looking the part

When I play live poker, people naturally assume that I am a big bluffer. I can be an animated white guy in his early 30's and if I am sitting next to, say, an old retired guy and a Russian woman, before the first card is dealt, people have decided that I am just a big bluffer. Even if my game play doesn't reflect that at all.

In cash games, this is great and I can use it. But it really works against me in tournaments, especially at that point in the tournament when the blinds get high and it becomes about stealing to stay alive.

Yesterday I was at that point in a big tourney and even though I was definitely playing less hands than any one else, whenever I raise, people frequently called light. They even say things like 'you know this guy bluffs a lot' when I hadn't been caught in a bluff for several hours and was likely bluffing less than anyone else. Consistently I find myself not playing any hands in a late tournament scenario and bleeding to death, only to finally make a steal attempt and to be called very light by the kind of people who haven't up till that point made light calls. I feel that a fair percentage of your average players aren't counting the amount of hands individual players play when they decide if someone is tight or loose per se.


Maybe there is nothing I can do about this. My wife is a short, tough looking woman and she crushes tournaments because she doesn't look like someone who would ever bluff. I envy it greatly.

I've noticed that those guys who don't say a single word the entire game seem a bit terrifying. I have a theory that not-talking at all increases fold equity in tournaments a bit. I have noticed that particularly blue-collar or thuggish guys can raise a lot and people don't mind getting out of their way. I find that poker, especially tournament poker, is more a game of testosterone than poker-books tend to acknowledge. Has anyone given this aspect of the game much thought or do they have any advise on how not to 'seem like a bluffer'?

thanks in advance.
flushymcacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2016, 11:36 PM   #2
apokerplayer
adept
 
apokerplayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Author of poker tells books/videos
Posts: 975
Re: optics, looking the part

I do agree that the more animated/talkative you seem from a personality perspective, the looser people will perceive you as. So if you want more folds, maybe just talk less and get a very stern expression on your face? Might work, seriously.
apokerplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 01:07 PM   #3
AALegend
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Philly
Posts: 1,201
Re: optics, looking the part

You can also dress more conservatively (worn out dress pants + dress shirt, do not overdo it with a tie) and order a black coffee!
AALegend is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 12:37 PM   #4
jake0518
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 114
Re: optics, looking the part

All you have to do is show up with nuts when they don't believe you and that will set em straight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jake0518 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 08:39 PM   #5
Discipline12
banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 597
Re: optics, looking the part

Stop playing tournaments or dress like a nerd and get you some glasses
Discipline12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 08:22 PM   #6
RiverDood
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 650
Re: optics, looking the part

Quote:
Originally Posted by AALegend View Post
You can also dress more conservatively (worn out dress pants + dress shirt, do not overdo it with a tie) and order a black coffee!
I like this train of thought. Serious, accountant-style glasses will help, too. Or a watch. Or this bracelet: https://www.christianbook.com/john-1...-8-5/pd/091787
RiverDood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2016, 03:45 PM   #7
cafepoker
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
Re: optics, looking the part

Play and use your strengths. God gave us all a different hand we need to play it right. Do this and crush.
cafepoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2016, 11:43 AM   #8
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 4,771
Re: optics, looking the part

It's hard to break an image, especially a visual one. There could be other physical behaviors that the others are looking at as well ... and of course people tend to think bluff more than strong when an extrovert suddenly gets serious. This, of course, goes against a huge basic tell but it could be working against you for some reason.

I have the same issue ... very active in cash but almost nitty in tournament in the latter levels, but the loose cash image carries over to tournament no matter what.

It sucks when you just want to take pots down and people end up calling you wide. Typically this would be a good thing, but even average tournament players know that when they hit the Flop that they are probably good a lot of the time.

Not much help, but I do feel your pain ... GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 07:26 PM   #9
mmmdoughnuts
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 9
Re: optics, looking the part

Have you tried increasing you bet/raise sizes when you have a hand and bluffing even less? I have a similar image in tournaments, same type of personality, I always get the "nice bluff" as they fold and I am betting the nuts....maybe they are just trying to get me to show my cards but I get it alot. I know standard open should be 2-2.5X pre but I have started going to 3X (min) up to 4.5x as my standard raise PF (based on the table, once I pick a size I stick with it) and I still get 1 - 2 callers, calling wide, almost every time, and and I find it tends to induce 3 bet's as well...I just charge them for their ignorance and it seems to work. Might be a bad idea really early but I usually play very tight for the first 1 - 2 hrs.
mmmdoughnuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 05:33 AM   #10
flushymcacey
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 78
Re: optics, looking the part

I'm not sure I like the idea of making bigger bets. On a mathematical level, it just puts me at a big disadvantage.

I've been working on it since this post first went up. I've gotten really into my social relationships with people. I think how much people like you or dislike you plays a big role in their borderline decisions and I suss it out person to person. I have come to the opinion that it has a lot to do with peoples testosterone. It's about not challenging alphas and challenging betas, if that makes any sense.

I also think it had something to do with the rather flamboyant sunglasses I was wearing and I think people just think a guy in goofy sunglasses is more likely to bluff. It's a patch that doesn't bother me as much as it did but is still something I think about a lot. I really believe that, unconsciously, people think they are making their borderline decisions based on reads and math but, in reality, most people are more driven by there emotions toward their opponent, how good or bad they have been running and how cranky they are at that particular second.

People, especially men and especially men who play poker, are highly emotional creatures.
flushymcacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 11:54 AM   #11
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 4,771
Re: optics, looking the part

Bet sizing should be relative to your table dynamic and position in the hand. Another big factor is your opinion of where you stand skill wise post-Flop. If you want to thin the herd as well as 'potentially' narrow your opponent's calling ranges, then larger PF bet sizes should provide that to you.

As you've stated though, it can possibly be exploited by opponents especially when you are OOP. Although a cardinal sin, I've found that I 'must' show some hands in order to remove some of the doubt about my play. They may see a high VPiP but if you can show that you are betting post-Flop (ie hitting) then they may not play back at you as much. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 12:35 PM   #12
flushymcacey
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 78
Re: optics, looking the part

I never show my hands and don't agree that showing a winner here and there convinces anyone of anything. To me, when a guy shows a winner it just means that he bluffs a lot and is trying to show his first made hand to imply that he doesn't bluff a lot.

The thing that has really upped my fold equity is just talking less. I don't talk anymore and my roi has gone way up. Although I felt that talking was giving me an edge in terms of tells, I now feel like it was costing me in terms of losing my "scary" factor. People are looking for any excuse to play back, stoic state downs are not my style, but I've still been getting milage out of them.
flushymcacey is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online