I have come to the conclusion that even people who have noticeable tells, dont have tells in all situations. Of course, novices might say stupid stuff in all situations and give their hand away, but people who have at least some experience know how to avoid that. As far as these somewhat experienced players are concerned, I think there are 2 distinct types, from the point of view of tells

i) those who give away their hands when they are weak
ii) those who give away their hands when they are strong

The 2nd group has 2 sub-categories
ii a) Strong made hands, noticeable tells
ii b) Suddenly make their hand ( e.g complete a straight or flush draw), give away physical tells

I would like to your opinion about this, and I am trying to make a list of things people do in each of the above situations.
I think I fall in Category ii b). When I make my dream hand on the turn or river, I have a very noticeable tell. And thats hurting me a LOT. Too many times when my supposedly 'concealed' straight comes in , people find miraculous folds against me ( sets, 2 pair etc) - the same people who often call me down with Ace-high because of my bluffer image ! My fellow players have confirmed that I have a tell in this particular situation; but of course they wont tell me what it is.
So I have tried to make a list of what people do when they suddenly make a monster hand. This, actually, is one of the situations where its hardest to hide your tells; because its hard not to get excited when your ever-elusive open ender, which you have missed the last 4 occasions, suddenly comes in ! So what do people ( especially myself ) do in these situations ??

1) Eyes lighting up (or some kind of eye movement/motion like widening etc) . This, I think, is one of my biggest problems. Its a well known fact that your face can conceal your emotions, but its very hard for your eyes to do so. Since I dont wear sunglasses, this might be my biggest issue and I will really
appreciate advice as to what I should do about this

2) Speed of betting and 3 ) where the bet is placed

These were pointed out by one of the kind people who responded to me elsewhere in this forum ( I posted there, before finding this specific area created by Zachary ). Mike Caro's book also confirmed that betting too quickly oozes strength. One should take a few extra seconds before betting his nut straight that just came in. Also, bets should be placed roughly at the same place every time ( I believe placing it too close to oneself suggest strength ? )

3) Poor acting. Acting or saying stuff to feign weakness backfires, more often than not. This, however, is one thing I do not do.

There must be other thing people do, either consciously or sub-consciously, in this particular situation. I would appreciate if you share your opinion/personal experiences because that might give me a clue as to what it is that I am doing

Get yourself a copy of "Reading Poker Tells" by our forum leader, Zack Elwood. Lots of good stuff there ...

1) Eyes ... Look at your opponent when the next card comes out. Then take a quick look when they check their stack or the board themselves. Don't write off the face so quickly. There have been studies of micro-expressions (including the eyes) and I find all the time with opponents to be useful.

2) ... not so sure that betting quickly oozes strength. I have caught many a missed draw trying to make it 'look like' their card came on the River by donking out. This may refer to when a blank hits the River and the aggressor is first to act. I'm referring to when a player is not the aggressor and misses the River ... and is first to act.

Zach's book does a nice job breaking down a bettor, caller or 'waiting for action' player. The same 'tell' can mean different things for each of these types of opponents.

I totally agree that when betting for value a player will take a few seconds to make sure he recalculates the pot and considers stacks before acting.

3) Most of us can tell 'natural' from acting. I think the longer it goes on the less likely the message is 'true' as well.

Read the book .. $20 Amazon or maybe through this site as well. GL

Thanks, I will. How is this book different from, say, Caro's book ?

Also, while a lot of stuff is written about reading other people's tells, not so much is about how to be conscious about your OWN tells, IMO. I am more interested in the later. I am usually pretty good at figuring others out; either from Physical/verbal tells or from their betting patterns. But all that is useless if I am giving away my hand myself, by doing something obvious and noticeable

UH tells should only be applied in certain spots vs certain players. What your describing when you don't get paid on river bets doesn't necessarily mean your opponents have a physical tell on you, but you may give off a tell by the way you play. Another thing that may cause you to not get paid is you may have a tight image and only make large bets on rivers when strong. You may be betting more than your opponent is willing to call or you play pre and post flop passively so it easy to tell if your betting for value.

Your too focused on what tell you could be giving off and not focused enough on playing solid poker. When faced with a large raise rather than recreate the action in your head your probably staring your opponent down looking for weakness. When facing a good player he will not give off much physically and if he's aware of what your doing he may give off a reverse tell. Next time you play try and identify patterns in your game that may give off the strength of your hand by how you play and if your worried about giving off a physical tell just think of what hand your opponent may have and don't think of yours even if its a monster.

Dr Gonzo, your observations would be right in most cases, but not mine. Thats because, as I had already explained,

i) I dont have a tight image. In fact I have such a loose image in that game that people routinely call me down with Ace-high ! And the same people have folded Sets/2 pairs face up when I made a not so obvious straight ! Thats what made me so suspicious

ii) I dont give off anything my staring down people. I never stare down people because I dont believe in those things. In fact, like you, I am not a big believer in physical tells, either mine or my opponents. I would much rather focus on betting pattern tells, just like you ! Much when you have a very, very conspicuous tell ( which I suspect I do), you have no option but to address that issue

Here's an idea I use more and more- I simply don't look at the cards!

I know a lot of people don't do it pre-flop until it's their turn to act, but why look at the flop/turn/river until it's your turn? Watch your opponent and see if he reacts. If you are playing in position- which you should be most of the time- you won't be able to give off any tells since you don't know what cards were just turned over- until after your opponent has acted.

Not a perfect solution, but it will help in some spots and it really helps me focus in on my opponent and his actions. Even if I can't spot a physical tell, I still tend to use the time reviewing the hand and thinking about my opponent- which can't be a bad thing.

cobweb, I do that too sometimes but it depends on the villain.

Often I find it better to look at exactly the same time villain looks because then they are focused on processing the turn card and don't have the mental capacity to analyze your reaction to the turn. This can give you time to compose yourself before he can notice any ticks or tells you might have shown for a brief moment.

I've never really discussed it much, but it does amaze me that big time tournament players wait until all the attention is on them before looking at their cards. I know that they are trying to pick up information from the others who act in front of them, but at the same time it gives everyone else an opportunity to look at them. Of course some of the players have already folded so it doesn't matter, but ... GL