Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Tells/Behavior, hosted by: Zachary Elwood Discussions about poker tells, behavior, and psychology, with a focus on live poker.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2016, 03:43 PM   #1
Breaking Free
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 56
Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Hey gents. Wanted to hear your opinions, but given no other context, in general, have any of you had experience correlating heavy breathing (ie, noticeable increased chest inhalation and speed of breathing) with strength or weakness?
Breaking Free is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 11:52 PM   #2
OmahaFanatical4
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,128
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

very unlikely to be bluffing
OmahaFanatical4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 12:21 AM   #3
SSKS
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,385
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

strong hand imo


the bluffers are usually the one quiet
SSKS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 02:20 AM   #4
OmahaFanatical4
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,128
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

i agree bluffers and generally quiet and motionless
OmahaFanatical4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 01:42 PM   #5
IslandGuy
adept
 
IslandGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Follow My Blog on 2p2
Posts: 1,005
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

I agree with the above posts that heavy breathing is more often a strong hand. I think it is a pretty unreliable tell though because I have noticed lots of people start breathing heavy when they get involved in any pot bigger than a limped pot. I notice tight players breathing heavy quite often in medium sized pots and I think it is just that they have gone into mental hibernation waiting for a hand and then they suddenly are thrown into some action because they have a playable hand and they get visibly excited. Therefore I think it is important to only use this tell to influence very close decisions.

I think it is also important to consider that they may be breathing heavy because they have a "strong" hand, but that doesn't mean they have the nuts. People who give off obvious tells like this usually aren't good players and therefore will overvalue their hands and emit this tell because they have a hand that is "strong", even though situationally it may be very weak.

Example- Fish limps behind 4 other limpers with TT and flop comes 478 R. EP bets, MP raises, fish goes all in and starts breathing heavy because he is excited and thinks his hand is strong.

Maybe not the best example, but my point is just that this tell isn't super reliable and you also need to consider that many live players over value alot of hands so just because they think they are strong doesn't mean they really are.
IslandGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2017, 04:24 PM   #6
ARCANGEL0
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,160
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

strong
ARCANGEL0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 05:18 AM   #7
astrobeaver
journeyman
 
astrobeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: a short drive from the Everest
Posts: 273
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Reminded of Jennifer Tilly in a hand against Antonius. I don't think too many people missed the heavy breathing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZli5THmqgc
astrobeaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2017, 02:13 PM   #8
onehandatatime
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sens nation
Posts: 1,113
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrobeaver View Post
Reminded of Jennifer Tilly in a hand against Antonius. I don't think too many people missed the heavy breathing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZli5THmqgc
Wow did ever miss out on a lot of value in that hand. She actually said " I thought you had pocket K's"..Really? wow
onehandatatime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2017, 11:11 PM   #9
SpewUrStack
enthusiast
 
SpewUrStack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 60
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrobeaver View Post
Reminded of Jennifer Tilly in a hand against Antonius. I don't think too many people missed the heavy breathing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZli5THmqgc
Ivey's face is priceless in that video
SpewUrStack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2017, 05:03 PM   #10
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 4,448
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

I think that typically a high heart rate or heavy breathing is a sign of a strong holding. I also very much agree that it occurs more often in 'larger than normal' pots/spots as well due to both anxiety and adrenaline. Putting any person in a spot they've never been before will create different, and possibly unreliable, indicators.

Some years ago Bryon Devonshire actually told a player that busted on Day 6/7 of WSOP ME about his carotid artery 'tell' that he had when he was BLUFFING. So for this person the stress surrounding potential loss of chips was causing an increased heart rate and blood pressure. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2017, 10:49 PM   #11
Pots-For-Sale
old hand
 
Pots-For-Sale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tx
Posts: 1,417
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

I disagree with most posts here. Depending on the player it can be either bluffing or value betting a very strong hand. I think a lot of players, especially inexperienced players, just get extremely nervous in large pots and can't control their breathing.
Pots-For-Sale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2017, 09:53 PM   #12
TJMaximus
newbie
 
TJMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Las Vegas
Posts: 44
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

High blood pressure.
TJMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2017, 08:32 AM   #13
AKAWhatALyfe
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 410
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Polarized - either the nuts or nothing.
AKAWhatALyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2017, 02:12 AM   #14
AceZagSuited
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 21
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Either a strong hand or a heart attack.

The examples I've seen were so obvious it was painful. Quiet mousy guy sees a flop and suddenly sounds like he's run the Kentucky Derby.
AceZagSuited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2017, 02:28 AM   #15
18000rpm
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 603
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAWhatALyfe View Post
Polarized - either the nuts or nothing.
Agreed. That and villain-dependent. But if I have to pick one I'd say it's more often the nuts, especially if it's a huge or all-in bet from an inexperienced player. This type of player would rarely make a huge bluff but is likely to be excited about having a big hand.
18000rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #16
leavesofliberty
Pooh-Bah
 
leavesofliberty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: atlas shreeked
Posts: 4,750
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

I think this is a somewhat strong tell that he has a strong-to-unbeatable hand. I make an effort to mess this tell up with occasional conscious breathing, because I think it's one that many give without knowing, or even caring. Get good at observing this one while not in a pot. $$$

Pay attention to what hit the board when the tell arrives too. I saw one today, the turn was another 8, and he started to breath heavily. I thought it was trips and he was going to raise. I was right. It increases the read if you can co-ordinate your read with the action. Another would be a flop with all diamonds, or something, and the tell shows up, this is somewhat more likely to be accurate since there is a plausible explanation. He flopped a flush.
leavesofliberty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 03:20 AM   #17
Tuma
self-banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: the b side
Posts: 8,095
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

it doesn't mean strong or weak. it means heightened emotional intensity.
Tuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2017, 06:04 AM   #18
tonyk81
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 54
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty View Post
I think this is a somewhat strong tell that he has a strong-to-unbeatable hand. I make an effort to mess this tell up with occasional conscious breathing, because I think it's one that many give without knowing, or even caring. Get good at observing this one while not in a pot. $$$

Pay attention to what hit the board when the tell arrives too. I saw one today, the turn was another 8, and he started to breath heavily. I thought it was trips and he was going to raise. I was right. It increases the read if you can co-ordinate your read with the action. Another would be a flop with all diamonds, or something, and the tell shows up, this is somewhat more likely to be accurate since there is a plausible explanation. He flopped a flush.
I encountered a similar situation today in a live game. I had raised the pot with 99 and 3 players called. flop came A65 . First 2 players and i checked. Next player bet small 10$ maybe a quarter of the pot. Other 2 folded. The player to my direct left who bet was playing almost every hand and getting very bet happy whenever i check after raising pre so i called his 10$ planning to call down reasonable bets. The turn was another 6 and he kindof blinked/ twitched. I checked he bet 15 in rather sloppy manner. As i was thinking his breathing suddenly picked up and his heart was visibly pounding/racing. I ended up folding and after he mucked he said "good fold i had an ace" which i think further suggests he had the 6 given he had shown 0 hands to me whenever i had folded a d never said anything about his holdings.
tonyk81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 03:36 PM   #19
GermanGambler
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DACH
Posts: 88
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuma View Post
it doesn't mean strong or weak. it means heightened emotional intensity.
This.
GermanGambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 12:23 PM   #20
dmccoy87
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Strong. When players are bluffing they tend to hold their breath, as they desperately want to conceal information. With strong hands, there is a release of tension and excitement. Hands will be jittery, heavy breathing, lean back in chair, etc.
dmccoy87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 09:08 PM   #21
cch001
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 11
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Generally strong. Personally I have a harder time controlling my own breathing when I'm very strong vs. bluffing. However this read is not as reliable in big pots as most people will have the adrenaline flowing regardless of holdings.
cch001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 11:26 AM   #22
Cotton Hill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Cotton Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,995
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Strong hand IMO.

I find it easier to control my physical and emotional state when I'm bluffing than when I'm strong.

Shaking hands, heaving breathing, fumbling furiously with chips, all signs of a monster more often than a bluff.
Cotton Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM   #23
leavesofliberty
Pooh-Bah
 
leavesofliberty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: atlas shreeked
Posts: 4,750
Re: Heavy breathing: strong/weak?

Heavy breathing can be somewhat involuntary for people attempting to process a strong handed and how to get maximum off of it, which makes it a reliable tell, and very observable from the sidelines. I wouldn't necessarily like to read this one cold.
leavesofliberty is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online