Playing 1/2 last night in my local room when this hand comes up.

I will preface this by saying I was not involved in the hand and really don't care what the ruling would be, just curious.

Hand comes to showdown with board reading something like A 10 7 7 4. Player 1 tables A 10, player 2 turns up one 7, and tosses her other card in face down. The face down card was not touching any mucked cards but was out of her reach. Dealer then pushes the card back to her and says something like "I can't flip this card, you have to". She flips the card and collects the pot. Another player then chimes in saying "you need to tip that dealer big" jokingly, but both players seem oblivious.

Standard?

I was at Caesars Poker Room about 2 weeks ago, and a similar thing happened. The floor ruled that since the card did not go in the muck, the hand was "retrievable." This was followed by a quick primer on the rule of showing both cards. Anyway, it is not a muck. Clearly the player didn't know the "show both cards rule." At the end of the day, if I was the guy with A 10, I wouldn't feel that great taking a pot where I knew I was beat. I mean, I'd sleep okay, but still...

happens pretty often in low limit games where one player doesn't know that she has to show both cards to claim the pot. No need to punish a new player to the game.

Yes, standard. A big tip is not necessary.

Ruling was fine, but KITN to the dealer.

Not really sure what you expect dealer to do here.....

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What should the dealer have done? Is there any situation where the player with the 7 doesn't win the hand, especially after the inevitable floor call? Can you see this hand going down any other way that doesn't slow the game down or result in he player with the 7 winning the hand?

not only should it not be a muck anyone who thinks they should win the hand when the player shows a 7 is a scumbag

I was involved in a similar situation last weekend at Mandalay Bay.

Setup: MP raises to $10, I reraise in SB to $30 with AQ (important note: I'm sitting in seat 9). Maniac from Hong Kong calls from BB (sitting in seat 1), MP calls. Flop comes 776, check, maniac bets $40, fold, I raise to $120, he moves all in (had just re-bought, so roughly $150 more.) Total pot about $630. I stand up and say I know I've got the best hand with ace high, and call. Board bricks out, no flushes, straights. Since I called, he needs to turn over first, and hesitates but sheepishly turns over. I thought I heard "2 pair", so I take my left hand covering the cards and stand up to verify since I'm in the 9 seat and he is in the 1. Dealer takes my cards, and I thought he showed pocket 8s, so I'm like oh well. Guys in seats 6 and 7 start saying what just happened, did you have the low straight draw? I said no, I had ace high like I said, they said you should have won, he had 8-9 as you thought he had! However, the pot was awarded to the other guy since the dealer had mucked the cards. The dealer did NOT say 2 pair, it was from another table. End result: I should have let the cards talk, and in that large of a pot, the dealer should not have taken the cards without letting me show, especially given the other guy was unpaired.

Felt pretty burned, particularly because I made a great call, but have a hard time blaming the dealer as I could see my action as ambiguous (even though it's common, since the 1 seat is blocked from the 9 seat.)

Thoughts?

Always gotta protect in 1 and 9 as a player...a lot of places will reiterate that to the players in some form and even may suggest card protectors. This is a very common occurance.

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I guess this comes down to a question of rules vs. ethics. By the letter of the rules in every room I've ever played in, a player must show both hole cards to win at showdown. From an ethics standpoint, you know the 7 makes a winning hand and that player "should" be awarded the pot.

It's a bit ambiguous as to how far I think a dealer should be able to go to clarify the rule while at showdown. If one card was tabled and the other card was truly tossed into the muck, then to me it's a dead hand. If the player tables only one card but their second card is still sitting right next to it and within the grasp of the player, I don't mind if a dealer looks at the player and asks them something like "is that a fold" or if they announce the other player's tabled cards as the best hand to possibly allow the player to realize that they need to table their second card.

What I don't like from dealers and what I think is going too far is when a dealer retrieves a mucked card and slides it back to a player to give them another opportunity to table their second card. To me that's no different then a player mucking their hand when the nuts are on the board and the dealer pushes the player their cards back as to tell them they should table their hand and take the chop.

In this particular situation I think the dealer went too far to protect the action of a player if the player's second card was truly mucked. I wouldn't have been too upset as I definitely have no problem with the best hand being awarded the pot, I'd just be a bit irked that the dealer crossed the line a bit on what their duty is at the table. This isn't a rare occurrence in LLS poker though, so I usually don't get upset about it when it happens.

The card was not mucked according to OP. It was just thrown forward. Instead of mucking the card the dealer pushed it back. This is not "too far" its just right.

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If it is not a muck, what do you think should be done when cards are thrown forward facedown toward the dealer?

Given back to the player if they are making a claim for the pot and simply don't know that they need to show both cards and not just the ones it takes to win.

I'd like my dealer to clarify the player's action as long as the player wasn't facing a bet or raise.

"What are you doing ?" or

"Are you folding ?"

Anything along these lines.

Also, consider changing your thinking here. If other player hesitates or makes it seem like you're good, then turn your hand over, don't play the "who shows first" game. Let your opponent be the one to misread his or your hand and muck a winner, rather than you.

$630 is a lot of "information" you have to make back now over a lifetime of "no, I called you".

Yep.

So many places require you to show both cards to take a pot these days, maybe most places do , IDK for sure. Anyway is it not about time that players just turn over both cards and stop trying to act or look "cool" by flashing only one. Leave that to the homegame table.

Agree 100%. Been playing poker a long time and never made a mistake like this. Let the cards talk.

The guy was so horrific he did dump several hundred back to me, and I was able to have a winning session despite this error, but that's not really the point. Hopefully others learn from it.

The dealer should not have taken your cards here without additional verification from you