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Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding?

04-02-2017 , 05:58 AM
Two scenarios:

1. My friend was facing a 3-bet on the river and asked "what if I make it $100?". Is this question binding for a $100-total bet?

2. Another friend was facing a big bet on the river and told his opponent: "if you want me to call, show me one card". The other person shows one card and he folds. Here, I'm pretty certain a conditional statement is not binding, but wanted to know what people thought about this situation (other than being bad etiquette).

Last edited by accorsiul; 04-02-2017 at 06:05 AM.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-02-2017 , 07:31 AM
Lame yes, bad etiquette- probably depends, binding no.

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Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-02-2017 , 08:06 AM
If everything is clearly spoken and understood, than nothing should be binding.

In 1, it's possible that someone (V or dealer) hears only "make it $100" and acts accordingly. In that case, it's very possible that it's binding.

For 2, just silly. Only less slightly silly if the statement was "I'll call if you show one card". Still not binding. Of course, using the word "call" in a statement when you don't intend to call can be risky and ruled binding, if the full statement isn't heard.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-02-2017 , 09:46 AM
Room dependent, some have rules about conditional statements being binding. Some rulesets (including TDA) say caveat emptor, ambiguous betting statements can be ruled against you. And as BB says, if you say something complicated, there is always the chance that there will be disagreement about what you actually said, and that could work against you as well.

In general, though, neither is binding.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-02-2017 , 09:56 AM
Your friends need to not say things that a distracted dealer or English 2nd language dealer might not interpret to their benefit. Non binding statements like those , actually do become binding once in a while due to circumstances. Also, most importantly, these kind of verbal exchanges just waste time.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-02-2017 , 10:38 AM
These statements should never be binding in a cash game. (But they can be, due either to bad acoustics or to badly-run rooms.)
To me, they're not bad etiquette, just traditional part-of-the-game table talk; but whether they're smart or normal or effective or stupid is a matter of opinion.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-02-2017 , 12:24 PM
Clarifying a player's ambiguous comments while simultaneously minimizing his/her influence on the action of the hand is one of the principle roles of a dealer. This happens all of the time when players ask "check?" in order to make sure the players preceding them checked before they act. This question is misinterpreted frequently as an action and I have to ensure the action remains on the player in question instead of a waterfall of checks or bets behind.

Hypothetical questions fall under the same category. So:

1. As a dealer, as soon as the player says this and knowing that he is trying to obtain information and has yet to declare a bet, I am asking him "what is your action sir?" Most of the time, he either bets $100 or checks immediately.

2. This is neither binding nor bad etiquette IMO. This is poker 101. Try to obtain as much information as possible within the rules to make an informed decision. I consider it the same as if the player facing the bet had said, "if you do 5 push ups I'll go all in." Amusing, but not binding.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-03-2017 , 02:14 AM
they aren't binding but they are both annoying and douchey.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-03-2017 , 05:12 AM
If someone just says "check?", I think it should be a check even if he meant it as a question. Hopefully any player with half a brain should only make that mistake once, and no dealer or other player should have to interpret that.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-03-2017 , 09:19 AM
Those are bad examples, as neither statement indicates a binding action. It would be more of an issue if he said 'If you show me one card, I will call'.

The first example implies no action and would not bind an action even if the house ruled that conditional statements were binding.

The more common dilemma here is when a person, not facing action, says something like 'I am going all-in no matter what you do' or 'I will call any bet'. Whether or not these are binding is room dependent.

You examples had no actions attached to them, so they are basic table talk.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-03-2017 , 11:58 AM
Thank you for your detailed responses everyone.

I can now say I've been vindicated because as the dealer and player at the same time I got a lot of heat from the players at my table, and here's why:

Scenario #1: even though they were arguing for the question to be binding, they later changed their argument and said they heard he said "make it $100". Since I'm the dealer and I heard the question, I made a judgement call and didn't make it binding.

Scenario #2: the affected player claimed that the player making the conditional statement didn't speak good English (second language) and so he assumed he meant that he would call. As the dealer, I can't give any validity to those assumptions and have to be strict with the language that was used, which was conditional and not binding.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-03-2017 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by accorsiul


Scenario #2: the affected player claimed that the player making the conditional statement didn't speak good English (second language) and so he assumed he meant that he would call. As the dealer, I can't give any validity to those assumptions and have to be strict with the language that was used, which was conditional and not binding.
So, if his exact words had been "If you show me one card, I will call", what would you have ruled?
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote
04-03-2017 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
So, if his exact words had been "If you show me one card, I will call", what would you have ruled?
Not binding, and a warning to the player.
Bet with question mark and conditional statement binding? Quote

      
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