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Originally Posted by BobboFitos
Alright, here are my thoughts on the new cards and whatnot:
As a disclaimer, I have been highly critical of hearthstone over the past year. I went from playing literally 4+ hours/day (obsessively and likely unhealthily) to basically playing 4hours/week, doing some of the quests and maybe an arena run once a week. I used to love this game obviously as I played on all 3 servers and ranked up high very often.
So, this expansion has me playing again, at least right now. It's not clear if it's because it's simply a new expansion or not, but I think they actually did it right. The previous expansions I pretty much said **** it after like 2 days - patches and never ending pirates will do that to you. I also firmly believe nothing is settled, and although I may end up hating this game shortly, I still think it will be fresh and good for a while.
Glad to have you back Bobbo, you add a lot to the thread.
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I didn't craft the mage quest, and I'm happy so far. I think I've MAYBE lost to this deck once, and most of the wins I've had have felt easy. Most mages complete the quest, it's that they spend a lot of time doing so, and once done, don't normally have a win condition with it. I forget who I was talking to about this card, but the overall sentiment is there is PROBABLY a list that will make this card OP, but EVERY SINGLE ITERATION I've seen has been a really ****ty deck. So, there is hope, but nothing real yet. I did mention I made an aggressive tempo oriented secret mage deck, and again, that has chewed through most decks. It's hard to say whether it's due to the newness and badness of other decks, but cards like arcanologist coupled with free secrets actually lend mage to being tempo based again, like with old mad scientist. The removal of ice lance really does move this class AWAY from specific OTKs, also.
The quest mage is def bad, but very fun to play. It's just a new iteration of exodia mage, which is just a meme deck.
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The paladin quest, and paladin class, seems to be the low man on the totem pole. I've barely run into any paladins, and even fewer of them are playing weak ass buff decks. I think Blizz has wanted this class to be the buff class since day 1, and that archetype has never established itself. There's a good reason for it - buffs are slow, anti-reward, and the class doesn't have natural card draw to waste on a lot of cheap, low value 1s and 2s. When paladin was king, it was either midrange (because THEY had the best in slot 2, 3, 4, 5+ curve, when you could just **** on people with chow into minibot into muster into shredder into loatheb or whatever), secret (because to this day mysterious challenger MAY have been the best card ever printed, single handedly made like 10 bad cards really good), or murloc because it had a combo OTK element, rather than a goofy, weak aggro style. Those all died out because their core cards left them, and we're basically left with not a lot of tools. I mentioned I made a ridiculous top loaded deck where you deplete your hand and fall back on a few cheesy dynamics to refill, and I do think the discover a secret card is quite strong, but none of the new cards lend itself to a new archetype that can work. This quest was dead on arrival.
I really thought the paladin quest was gonna be better that it is, simply for the reason that the reward is huge, and paladin is the only class that has a one sided total board wipe. Thought we'd be seeing a lot more of dino OTK. But yeah, it seems v bad for all the reasons listed.
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I'm glad priest is not dragon priest anymore. You have to keep in mind I played a ton of priest when control priest was weak, waaaay back, and I loved it because it had a good matchup vs face hunters and secret paladins. It had a horrible record vs most OTKs, so this is basically wedged after grim patron shenanigans and before shamanstone, but for a long time Priest was just play the highest value dragon, hope for dragon synergy, unload your dragon cards, and, well, DRAGONS! I hated that deck. The quest lends itself back to a very old archetype of deathrattle priest, which was dominant way back during Nax. I haven't tried this quest yet though because I think a lot of the new deathrattle cards suck, but I have played AGAINST this deck, and although it seems somewhat mindless, it seems like there is potential. Especially with N'zoth. (A lot of the old gods card sets are being temporarily ignored, and those sets, like c'thun shells, are for sure still good) I also think there might be something there along the OTK line, as they have radiant elemental and mirage caller, 2 cheap very very very OTK type cards. People aren't trying this yet, and neither am I.
If there is one thing that I can count on, it's Bobbo's unconditional hatred of dragon priest.
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The rogue quest is all the rage. It already has proven itself to be viable, and I'm happy about that. I crafted it, but pretty much jumped ship and trended towards a deck similar to the one d104 posted. (My versions are slightly different, but share like 26ish of the same cards) I think THAT deck is super good. Miracle variants are also super good. More pirate heavy decks still seem decent too. Rogue is very alive and well, the quest is alive and well... But perhaps still will have more modification, as this absolutely suffers vs fast in your face decks. It's also why I didn't think the quest was too good initially as all I played were these fast mage and hunter decks, which all had easy matchups there.
Glad you're playing a version of my list, I hope other ppl do too (hint,hint). Quest rogue is super brainless, and I think prob a little too easy to hit. I'd like it see it upped to 5x minion instead of 4.
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The warlock quest seems awful. I've seen it completed, and the reward is super ****ty. It's also HARD to complete. That said, I think simple discard lock (zoo templates) are viable, which makes me glad, because Zoo is one of these decks that should always be a viable tier 2 deck or whatever. And for a long time, due to the dominance of shaman, it has not been. Discard Zoo works.
Zoo def is back, and yeah, the warlock quest seems v v bad. Way too hard to hit for too little payoff. Warlock already has an infinite minion generating finisher too! Jaraxxus is just better.
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Finally, the warrior quest is a quest I also crafted and wanted to play. Warrior has been my top or 2nd favorite class since I started this game, (some of it due to watching a lot of rempel stream very early, and he basically is/was 90% warrior!) but the quest does not feel control to me, it feels super tempo. IT also feels a lot like curvestone, as you get a taunt, play matching your curve, hope you dont die, then kill people are rag. It is a very mindless deck, which is unfortunate, as control warrior has largely been a pretty thoughtful deck. Regardless, I don't think a list has been cemented, but I'm pretty sure this is viable. It does make me so sad I see a lot of pirate warriors, but as others have said, a lot of people just don't have the new cards and want to play the game, so pirate warrior it is. For them.
The bolded is the absolute truth. It is a pure tempo deck disguised as control. I haven't piloted it myself, but it feels very strong to me when I play against it.
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Thoughts on additional cards, either ones used a lot, or not at all. I'll go with neutrals first.
-Emerald Hive Queen is a very good card that no one is using right now. I made a non-quest druid deck, the VERY old ramp archetype, and this card is basically chow. You want to ramp early anyway, and you dont have early cards to play other than spells (wrath or wild growth or whatever) so this card fits that. I think this card has a home in other control decks. They NEEDED the 1 mana 2/3, the downside is slightly more severe than chow but is OK in some decks. (Control priest too, maybe)
-Both cheap elementals (glacial and firefly) are good beyond the elemental synergy. I think they fit a lot of decks even with 0 elemental synergy. This is a good/bad thing.
-I've posted about how much I love golakka crawler, and if you're not using this card, you should. RIGHT NOW due to how much pirate warrior, the quest rogue (and rogue in general), as well as the odd pirate druid or patches hunter or shaman, the tech on this card is super high. The other thing is, opposite from a guy like Kezan Mystic or Blood Knight, a 2 mana 2/3 is barely below average in constructed that you only need the hit rate to be small to be viable. And again, the hit rate is beyond crazy right now.
Agree with all this.
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-Kinda disappointed they added this many new murlocs. I always felt murlocs should be this fringe, fun/odd deck, not a serious deck that has a massive home with a lot of cards devoted to the tag. Oh well.
Disagree with this, though murlocs are not my playstyle. Game isn't deep enough to have a whole subset of cards that are just straight gimmick. Feel like they are pushing murlocs in a more positive direction too.
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-Gluttonous Ooze is a better acidic swamp ooze, I think. This is not clear, but the rogue deck that d104 uses (and I borrowed from) relies on this card to win vs the fast aggro decks, and I think in other decks were minor lifegain matters, this card serves the purpose. I don't LOVE weapon hate cards (since I like weapons) but I do love anti aggro cards, and that is this card.
Card is the nuts, it single handedly makes the pirate warrior matchup winnable for rogue.
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-Haven't seen Humongous Razorleaf yet, but I think there is a future in this card. The 4 mana 7/7 statue never took off, but a 3 mana 4/8 is miles better. People thought that "Can't Attack" card had potential, and frankly, this one is cheaper, more defensive, and higher value.
seen streamers running this in handlock, seems good in that deck, along w/ purify priest.
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-Elise is a fun card. I crafted her on EU and put her in a lot of decks. I don't think she's a good card, beyond some super late game control decks (where the later value of a new pack! is sick) but still, she's fun. If you have room for her in a deck, throw her in.
I like that they brought her back in a different form, but she is still a one card late game if used right.
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-The new hydra is obviously the new fel reaver. INCREDIBLY GOOD but will also lose you a few games along the way. that had a mech tag, this beast. hmmmm
-servent of kalimos+blazecaller are the reasons to play elementals, and boy, these cards are nuts. a lot of good legendaries are elementals, so yeah, the basic elemental shell is being ignored by most because people are trying quests, but I think a lot of classes can support this strong archetype.
Yup.
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Vilespine is my early vote for the best card in the set. I absolutely love it, (am annoyed at how power creeped ****ing kidnapper is, but whatever) and I do think the razorpetals were overlooked a little. (From a miracle perspective) Mimic pod, biteweed, and so on all decent too. Just a lot of good rogue stuff.
Agreed, power level is off the charts. The genesis of my deck is basically damn I wish i could run 10 copies of this in my deck, hmmm let me try.
