I am one of the villains this time around, let's try and figure what Hero is thinking.

We are playing $1/$1 no limit Texas hold'em. The game is eight handed. We are late in the session. Tonight's game is dominated by a contest to feast on a player spewing chips - he is down 800bb at the time of this hand and in free fall. Everyone seems to have noticed.

Cast of characters (brief thumbnails for now, more details once the field is shortened):

In general - - - Everyone at the table knows everyone well. We have thousands of hours of play time together. Table talk is common and greatly exceeds the notion of "one player to a hand", though for big pots there will be a little bit more discretion. Many of the players are quite sticky.

The SB is a TAG player who has drifted to TAP due to a poor run of luck tonight. He is playing $75 and isn't much of a factor. He has 0% air in his aggressive range at the moment.

The BB is the chip spewing LAGtard of the evening. He has $80 and is almost certainly going to lose it in the next few hands if not this hand.

UTG, aka known as the Hawk, is playing $400. He is tricky-trappy, loose and passive.

UTG+1 is folding ( for no good reason, he calls himself Mr. Cup Cake. )

MP1 is playing $150. Her night has been up and down, more down. She plays a semi-loose / semi aggressive game but not really well.

MP2 is the Cougar with $550 in chips. Tricky-trappy, loose, sticky. Bets his draws and medium to weak hands but traps with better hands. Always means business when check/raising.

Our Hero is in the CO with $350 in chips. Hero is normally TAG trending towards rockish in casino play but in these home games has widened his range and become looser and more passive in preflop play.

DrStrange holds the button with $400. Tagish, though has a significant limping range preflop.

The hand:

We get limps from UTG, MP1 and MP2. That brings us to Hero holding A 7.

Action is on Hero, should he fold, limp for a buck or raise? If raising, how much?

Hero normally raises larger than anyone else at the table. A $12 to $15 raise is normal for him. Even so, he is likely to get several callers. There is little chance to take down the dead money or even get the hand heads-up.

Seems like an obvious limp to me. I'd raise A9s, but there's no point in building a pot or knocking out players right now with your hand.

Limping is not bad, and I would do that 30-40% of the time in this spot, but overall I prefer a raise. With three players left to act, I don't like letting an every-widening range of hands enter the pot behind me. And a reraise might tell me something I wouldn't know by limping.

With two players already in the hand, I'd make it $15, the high side of the range you mentioned.

Please go slow with this thread like the last one. I may miss a post otherwise. I find these very enjoyable.

I make a small raise to $10 mainly because I hate to open or over limp most of the time. I would either fold or raise this holding. I can't , honestly, condemn a limp for somone else either. A small raise builds the pot a little in case I get a favorable flop. I can always fold to a much larger raise or get away cheap from a blank flop with agression from somebody.

Raising here then making a flush can be incredibly profitable.

In home games where FE is minimal both pre and post, I tend towards the "Bet for value, draw for cheap" side of things. And with Axs, the chance to overflush someone is worth letting Jxss come along for a buck. Basically we're only ever really happy gii with a flush or trip 7s, hoping someone has the case 7.

If I simply was in a raising mood, I'd much rather a hand like 87s or even 97s, something where we can have equity in a few different ways, and where a variety of turn cards can increase it. Ace-medium suited, if it's not trips or NFD, it's a trash hand that can hit the flop just hard enough to cost us a lot of money. Once in a while at the casino I'll bomb Ax offsuit over a million limps ONLY if I'm CO or BTN, and I'm at a table where enough people "know" that I'm a borderline nit. (I actually prefer Kx in those spots, but I digress.)

If Hero puts in a stiff raise, he will be in a hand with a $40 +/- pot before we see a flop.

Two players are sitting on less than $100 so their SPR is less than two. Hero might also feel pot committed if either one of them three-bet shoves. { a fist pump vs the money spewing guy though }

One player has $150 which would lead to an SPR of 3+.

On the other hand, there are three deep stacked players who cover Hero where the SPR would be around eight.

This type of situation is exactly why shallow stacked players have an edge vs deep stacked players in a cash game. Hero risks being put in a difficult spot post flop as the short stacks can accurately jam or fold with a range of holdings and Hero is trying to decide to call/raise or fold when he flops top pair, weak kicker.

Hero also only has one card to pair that always makes top pair. So he is 17% to flop top pair with the ace and perhaps a couple of percent to make top pair with the seven.

Is Hero planning to fold the flop unimproved? It seems to me that hero must be planning on a lot of c-bets with air or perhaps second / third pair hands. This isn't a terrible idea in that hero has a fit/fold reputation so he would be getting more respect than many other players get. Not that he can get folds from the short stacks very easily. Sticky players on a losing night tend to be difficult to bluff.

So, my question to the folks recommending raising is, "what is your post flop plan?" Hero needs to be thinking about this clearly before his chips get tossed into the flop. This could get to be troublesome.

I see no trouble with a small raise at all. If someone else bets big pre flop I fold and lose my $10. If I get a lot of callers then I build a good pot with minimal investment. The key is the flop for me. I can whiff, check and fold to any agression. I can also hit it very big , then bet out and hope for a couple of callers. Or I can marginally hit the flop, check, call a smaller sized bet or fold to a serious sized bet. I am not sophisticated enough for much else at the stakes I play. That's my plan after I make a small raise.

*** onward! ***

Hero limps for a buck.

Villain Strange raises to $6. This is in his "normal" range, but still it is on the small side.

SB and MP1 folds.

BB, the chip spewing player, calls

Hawk, tricky-trappy passive, calls

Cougar, tricky trappy passive, calls.

This brings us back to Hero. Hero owes $5 to continue in the hand. The pot is $27. Hero holds A 7

What should Hero do, fold, call or raise?

As a sidebar, Hero's image and history is such that 3-bet check raise really means Hero has AA, KK or a rare AK. That doesn't mean Hero wouldn't be called, just that the villains might range him as KK+/AK if they bothered to think about it.

Can't really condemn the heros limp, as I said earlier. I don't like to do it myself but , Now that I am stuck with it and the raise is small , I simply call the $6 raise by V and still look to the flop to consider my options. The pot is smaller than if I (or hero) had bet my $10, but still a lot bigger than just a limp fest. Also my investment in the hand is still minimal if things get really ugly.

I'd have been nervous about the call the first time, with action behind me. With the $5 raise and three callers and me last, I'd like how the pot was increased and get to see something, so would call.

Personally, I'd probably call too fast, instead of acting like raising was a possibility....but would call for sure.

You can rep JJ+/AK when you do the l/rr move from utg or +1, there's almost zero chance even a half-thinking player will give you credit for it from the CO after multiple limpers unless someone left to act is like 90% pfr. Which doesn't sound like the case here. So I think there's really no choice but to call.

Again, this may be too deep for the average home game crowd, but your overlimping range from the CO is pretty tightly capped. In my mind there's zero chance you have TT+/ATs+/AQo+/KQs+. At this point everyone in front of you has a range that is also wide but has a higher ceiling than you. If you were to backraise here, if the button doesn't 4bet you, I'd probably shove almost anything I have from one of the EP or MP spots. Honestly, pocket 9s would feel like the nuts to me if you tried a backraise and OR just called (or lol folded).

Limping and calling. Let's see a flop and evaluate how we are going to get stacks in when we crush the flop.

If I knew that Strange was going to raise $5, I would have limped. Of course, I didn't know that, but it turns out my limp was pretty good. Now I can see the flop cheap.

We still know very little about what people might have, as a wide range of hands is priced in. But if someone is slowplaying a big hand, or makes a good hand on a flop with two spades, it could get interesting.

Call.

Well, everyone could fold...

I'm with Abbey here. I want to see a good flop and be ready to fold.

Maybe I've put in too much to see a flop, going by my declared preflop raise. But luckily, reality baled me out.

*** On to the flop! ***

Hero calls for $5. Five way action with $32 in the pot. Hero holds A 7

Flop is A 7 2

Three checks to Hero. Bet or check? If betting, how much? What is the plan for the hand?

Notes and observations:

Hero has $344 behind. In order, the villains have $74, $394, $544, $394 left in their stacks.

Hero and villain strange had a conversation prior to the flop. Hero calls the $6 raise while commenting that he thinks his hand is better than Strange's hand. Strange snickers and says not a chance.

All three checking villains could be planning a check-raise, though the chip spewing villain normally will show down garbage.

Villain Strange would almost always c-bet this flop heads up but in a multi-way hand he might show more discretion. Hero holds a blocker to a big ace type of hand - let's guess Villain Strange c-bets half the time if Hero checks.

So much for Spades most likely ,but not the worst flop either. If I had raised like I wanted to pre flop I would bet out about $20 dollars, but since hero check called I think I will turn down my normal aggression a bit and check. If Strange c-bets reasonably sized and no other action occurs, I will certainly call him. I do want to see what the others do first before continuing.

I'd bet $15 here personally. I'm thinking top two with a backdoor draw is pretty good, and if I'm not going to continue with that, I probably shouldn't have been in the hand regardless.

Bet $20. I'd check if I was in EP, but seeing 3 checks before me, I'd check. Also, our Ace and Ace on the board makes it less likely DrStrange has an Ace. And DrStrange will not cbet into a 5-way pot with less than top pair. So bet yourself to start building a pot.
By us betting we can create a number of great scenarios, such as Strange calling and Spewtard jamming his $80 behind. If the flop checks through, we miss an opportunity to build a pot.

Well, now my preflop raise looks fairly brilliant again, haha.

This is a juicy flop if anyone has a big ace hand. And we might even get some value out of 88-KK, and especially JJ-KK. At any rate, I like betting out, as well, especially with the trappy players in the hand. You've got to step into their trap, don't you? They don't know you're holding an elephant gun. $15-20 is a good range.

But I can see checking sometimes, as well. Will anyone holding a biggish pair believe no one has an Ace if it's checked around? Will this give us a better chance at a bigger pot by the end of the turn betting round? All in all, I think betting is the better course of action, but as you've probably noticed, I like to mix things up. I'd check maybe 20% of the time (if I can keep up with the last five times I'm in a similar situation, which is not a certainty). I've used Dan Harrington's watch method sometimes to randomize things.

So, bet $18.

It is true that a preflop raise by hero would have worked out great. Flop top two and greatly reduce the risk that Villain Strange has pocket aces. But if we scrape one spot off that seven of clubs and make it the six of clubs, then Hero might not feel so good about his preflop raise.

I somewhat agree with the thought that Strange will tend not to c-bet pairs less than aces. Not impossible, but with a five way pot it seems someone would have an ace. Might be better to take a free card and hope to bink a set.

Also, Hero isn't going to get more than one bet out of Villain Strange if all Strange has is an underpair. However, Hero could easily get several streets from the tricky-trappy guys who wouldn't raise preflop with pocket queens and now get sticky about folding.

Have to bet this one. Unlikely OR will fire with KK-, all the players in front of us have plenty of Ax in their range, and anyone with lower PP will (usually) only put money in the middle if they spike. Not betting here lets them freeroll. HU or 3way, we can let OR barrel or otherwise let someone catch up, but with half the world in the hand, let's get to work.

Pre Flop Strange told hero "not a chance" on who held the best hand. Table talk BS? Maybe, maybe even likely BS , but also maybe some important info. The others in the pot are not insignificant either due to their biographies.

I'll fire $20ish, WA/WB I think and plenty of worse hands are going to call. Unlikely that a better hand folds, but not too many of those out there

*** Next? ***

Hero checks. Maybe he is trapping with the 4th nut, maybe he fears a set is lurking.

Villain Strange bets $25 into the $32 pot. This sizing is normal to a shade big for his c-bet sizing.

BB folds rather than spew chips (boo!)

The Hawk flies off into the sunset too.

The Cougar calls for $25.

Action back on Hero. He owes $25 to continue with the pot at $82. Should Hero call, fold or raise? If raising, how much?

Implied in this decision is a range for both villains. If they both hold an ace, then Hero is in clover. If not, that could spell trouble for Hero. Perhaps it is plausible for one villain to hold a big pair and the other Ax. Both villains cover Hero. The pot is closing in on $100 with two more streets to bet, Hero could easily play for stacks if he chooses to.