I didn't say or hint that I assumed you don't tip. Nice one, dude.

Albedoa, you are coming across as a troll. You can make your argument without insulting eneely or his taste in restaurants.

You think there is something I can say to eneely that he won't deliberately misinterpret? I neither said nor implied anything about his tipping habits, yet he dismisses my assumptions because he tips. That makes absolutely no sense.

A good restaurant will not fill one of their high-demand seats with a non-tipper. You can choose to be insulted by that if you want, and you can choose to make a big deal out of it, but I don't know how else to say it.

I remember playing in a home game where there was no rake and the host and his wife were the only two who dealt, and they did receive tips, however, every single player who tipped these two were tipping $4,5+ on every pot. It was a very friendly atmosphere and a lot of the players were dealers at one of the local card rooms in AC, so I can understand for the over tipping, but I did feel out of place and obligated to tip the same, so in those regards it did feel like a mandatory rake(even if it wasn't actually posted as such).

But other than that, if you're just tipping your usual buck or so, then no, that's not rake and I would just view the tip as I would if I were in a casino. Actually, it's a lot better because you're not getting raked/paying Time.

Just because the Host is the beneficiary of those tips, you shouldn't view it as a rake because keep in mind, I'm sure they are providing food/drinks, and most importantly, they're providing you with a place to play at and ultimately take all the consequences that may come with that, and that's HUGE!

This IMO reinforces the idea that you're trolling. Read your first two posts in this thread:

So you come into the thread, fire a couple insults at eneely, and when I call you on it, you say, "What? I never said anything about his tipping habits! He's deliberately misinterpreting me!"

You are trolling - DUCY? Probably not, but we won't discuss it anymore here and further derail the thread. PM me if you want to continue the conversation.

Where the money goes does not define it as a rake or not. It could be going to charity, but it is still a rake.

Whether it is a good value to players is a different matter, and depends on a lot of factors.

Well I guess so!! Here in Kentucky the State RAKES about half of a Charity Tournament to the organization by written law. Definitely a rake and a half LOL

First, I wanted to say you all eat at ****ty restaurants. So there. If anyone needs me I'll be going to Chino Bandito in a few minutes for some Asian/Mexican/Jamaican food. I'm probably having the carnitas and jerked chicken with black beans and pork fried rice - because that makes sense somehow.

...but I'm going to say it again. If the tips are expected, if they are given out of obligation or by custom, then they are a fixed cost for your play and, as such, a rake. [e.g. If you drag a $100 pot, you mechanically throw $3 at the dealer, you have an additional 3% rake.] I don't want to create Y.A.T.T. but just like the 15-20% you min-tip at restaurants, it's part of the cost of eating out. It's disingenuous to try to give it some sort of other label. Tips at a table FROM STACKS leave play. They are the very definition of rakes.

Update: I opted for the jade chicken, carnitas, refried beans and chicken fried rice.

+1

I think Americans in general have an inherent bias in how they view tips since it's very prominent in the US economy. Since they are voluntary they are not viewed as traditional fees for service. But de facto they are, since the social norm in places where tipping is expected is to always tip at least the customary minimum (i.e. you wouldn't tip less than 15% in a restaurant even if the service was poor).

The fact you are not legally bound to pay said fees is not really enough in my view to turn them into something else, since they are expected.

When playing with a dealer working on tips you are expected to tip on pretty much every hand you play. So they are a fee paid for palying, per hand, and they take money off the table.

When we visited Ireland, I tipped at restaurants and bars. There is not a strong tipping culture there, but it's a force of habit for me, and I'm sure other Americans who travel. The tips were certainly appreciated.

I see your general point ( and other posters), but I don't tip every hand I play especially when I lose at showdown. I assume you meant every hand you win, and that's a bit different, but still a valid argument.

Yeah, I didn't want to create another tipping thread ala B&M. I should have titled it "Is it a home poker game if tips are mandatory?" That is really the topic I wanted to discuss. It would have changed the poll questions, too, if I'd taken that approach.

There is a consensus here that a true home game does not include any type of rake. So if the tips are a rake, it's not a home game.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with underground poker games. But I thought it was another interesting distinction between home poker and other types of games.

Yes, every hand you win, a typo on my part. Thanks for pointing that out. And as you stated, it doesn't much change the outcome. Each hand there is a winner (let's leave split pots out of this for the sake of discussion) and said winner is expected to tip, normally the customary minimum (such as $1). So essentially the table is paying a rake of $[insert tip amount]/hand. The fact you are not "legally bound" to pay your share doesn't make much difference in my view.

No True Scottsman, er, Home Game

No home game takes a rake.
I run a home game, and I take a small rake.
Well, no TRUE home game takes a rake.

To the larger point, there are certainly "games with no rake" where there's an established tipping culture. In fact, the point that there is "no rake" is regularly reinforced on the players to remind them they need to tip more to cover this "rakeless" game.

The strip-mall saga in Arizona had this, with "button fees" and all sort of other nonsense that wasn't "a rake." [Because, you see, a rake comes from the pot. If the guy on the button pays a dollar before the hand is dealt, that's TOTALLY different, because hand-waving.]