That is a lot of high cards in the three hands we see. Very surprising the board was accommodating.

Oh except that it was all made up. I'd definitely split that villain hand as 99 and QJJT. Getting that set on the hold'em side is equally valuable, and you haven't trashed your Omaha hand nearly as much.

I'm no SOHE expert, but it is frequently called in our monthly game.

Well, yeah. It's an exemplar hand. Hero had a few big cards and a pair of 3s. And UTG didn't have big cards, and his hand whiffed, so he folded.

But honestly, I've seen some crazy stuff like this go down at SOHE. There are so many cards out there that some big hands are almost inevitable. Multiple sets are not uncommon, and of course straights and flushes frequently hit.

The hands where you get blah and everyone else gets blah, there's little to talk about. Basically, the aggressive guy wins, game over.

The strategy I've used in this game is to set my hand so that the NL side can make the nuts. You want to lock up one side (and it's far easier to make the nuts on the HE side given 2 cards vs 4 cards) and then press the action in multi-way pots. Scoops are appreciably rare and not how you typically make your money.

The key is hand formation. Never set yourself an inferior hand on the HE side. I split aces all the time. It's not like NLHE where you can get solid reads given progressing board structure and bets, and it's not like hi/lo where the board gives indications as to how viable it is that players are pursuing the low (and some players will consistently not press lows in PLO8 in fear of getting quartered).

This game is about making the nuts. You lose a ton of money with set over set on the HE side. Having 2nd nuts on both sides and figuring that you're good on at least 1 side in a 3 way pot (and certainly in 4/5 way hands) is another way to basically burn money.

You see very, very few bluffs in SOHE. Players get looser pre with calling and it's incredibly hard to move players off draws when they might perceive their marginal hand on one side to perhaps hold up.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, particularly about setting your hands to try to hit the nuts, but not this. Outright scoops may not happen often, but the way you maximize your winnings in this game is to push the spots where you have the best chances to scoop. Sometimes you may win only half the pot, and that's fine too, but it's a lot of risk for not enough reward if your hand is weak on either side—even if it's currently the nuts on the other side (and especially if it's a nut hand that can be duplicated, like a straight).

What I see happening in a lot of hands is that it goes to a flop multi-way, and if there's any significant action, it gets heads-up pretty quickly. Then the two remaining guys duke it out and frequently split the pot. They pull back their mountains of pot-sized bets and then carve up the little bit of dead money from preflop and maybe flop betting. It's a tiny gain compared to the risk they took—the chance that the other guy had a draw to beat their strong side and scoop a large pot.

So in my eyes, though you can't scoop very often, you should make sure as much as possible that you're the guy with the better chance to take down the whole pot. If you sense that splitting is as good as it's going to get, you should cut your losses as soon as there's a significant bet.

Why shut it down? This isn't a game you often get quartered at.

There's a lot to be said for hyper aggression to put pressure on the other player if HU and you have the HE side locked (which is less susceptible to redraws being 2 cards vs 4).

For example, I have something like JJ5678. JJ goes on the HE side and 5678 on PLO. This is where board context gets critical.

Flop 4h-9h-Js. There is a bet and you raise and get one caller. Turn is a 5h and he leads out again. I might just flat here and then if the board pairs the river, jam. If you press the turn, and he has nut hearts on PLO, he's coming along, whereas you can get some money in the pot and then put pressure on him on the river and try to get him to fold a one way hankf the board context changes considerably on turn or (more often), river. You can do this because you have ostensibly have the HE side locked.

We're in agreement here. Taking down the pot uncontested falls into the category of "buying out equity," which I mention in the OP as a way of taking the whole pot. Definitely preferable to play a premium hand in hold'em strongly if your Omaha hand is so weak that even a whiffed draw could beat it. It's the same idea as chasing out mediocre lows in PLO8 when you have a lock for high but no low yourself.

New hand. This time I'm dealing the hands off of a real deck instead of making them up, and I'll deal out the board from the same deck. How would you set this hand, and what's your bet?

Pot-limit SOHE, six-handed. Hero is dealt T K 6 K 8 A.

SB ($500): $0.25 post
BB ($600): $0.50 post
UTG ($400): $1 straddle
UTG+1 ($300): $1 call
CO (Hero, $500): ?
BTN ($600):

I think that KK for HE is optimal, with AT68ds for PLO. This way our equity for holdem is maximised, and we can make the NF as well as a bunch of straights on the PLO side.

Given how evenly equities would be distributed in SOHE pre-flop, anything besides potting pre-flop would be pretty bad I suspect since we have almost certainly the best HE hand, and a reasonable PLO hand.

The optimal split has already been suggested. I'm absolutely potting it pre-flop with this hand.

Yeah, the right split here is pretty clear. I like potting too.

Hero splits his hand: KK and A6T8. Completed preflop action:

SB ($500): $0.25 post/fold
BB ($600): $0.50 post/fold
UTG ($400): $1 straddle/fold
UTG+1 ($300): $5 call/call
CO (Hero, $500): $5 pot raise
BTN ($600): $5 call

There is $16.75 in the pot. The flop comes A63.

UTG+1 ($295): check
CO (Hero, $495): ?
BTN ($595):

I haven't done the math, and in this case it's obviously less likely because there is an Ace in our hand.

While it makes sense that we would use KK for the Hold'em side, aren't we going to run into AA a good amount of the time? Especially if we don't have an ace in our hand?

Well, we do have an ace in our hand. And while we may run into AA, it's not a given. Note that we'd have to run into AA with a playable Omaha hand, which is even less likely. Of course, we'd rather have AA ourselves, but even then, it's only a starting hand. Moreover, running into AA isn't the end of the world unless AA re-pots preflop and we decide to get stupid and play for stacks.

After the flop, it's a complex enough game that someone with AA isn't going to necessarily stick around for a showdown with an unimproved one pair. SOHE is played mostly post-flop, with hands that have improved with the board. Unless our AA guy hits a set while we hit a set of kings, and he catches something worthwhile on the Omaha side, AA versus KK is just not as devastating in this game as it is in hold'em.

i think I agree with the consensus for the starting hands, but let's make explicit our range of options.

1. KK with A6T8
2. AK with T8K6
3. A6 with KKT8, and
4. T8 with KKA6.

I can't conceive of any additional options worthy of consideration. I think #2 is clearly the worst of the four (though a perfect AQJ flop may give one hopes for a scoop run out). #4 leaves the flush draws intact and gives Omaha a slight chance at Broadway to go with the high pair. But the chance at putting the second nuts on the hold'em side is too strong a draw (the ace in our hand halves the chance that one of our five opponents holds two aces -- though now that I've typed that out, it's probably worth actually demonstrating the truth of that math). If the T8 was actually J9 then maybe #3 would grow more appealing with the additional high straights on the Omaha side (though who would willing construct an A6 hold em hand?!?).

It's very easy for newbies to SOSE to simply construct the best possible hold em hand and let the Omaha hand be whatever is left (I see this all the time when playing with folks new to the game) but in this hand's case, that seems to be the dominating favorite to all other choices.

And yes, it's plenty good to try to thin the herd, preflop. Pot-size raise.

I thought of a couple of these as well as the one I decided to go with.

What I'm wondering is how it might affect our decision if, say, UTG has not straddled and now comes in for a raise. UTG+1 flats. You're playing, but you don't want to reopen the action with a raise, and if you call, it is likely you'll have at least one more call behind you.

Would you consider splitting it any other way for a multi-way pot like this? What if you strongly expect AA in hold'em to be out there? Is it worth the transfer of strength to put a suited one-gap or weak suited ace in KK's place?

this game is a staple in our home game.. we have been playing it for about 3 years now.

big action game! its fun.. but its a head f**k

C'mon, then, play the hand with us! I still have the live hands, flop, and stub out on my desk, waiting to deal out the rest of this hand. Action's on Hero.

I'm a chicken, so I check. too easy for an ace to be against us in holdem, and top2 in omaha is meh.

there are only 2 aces unaccounted for now, though, and we don't like giving free cards to flush draws, so 3/4 pot bet isn't insane. What I don't like about it is that if we get called, especially by both opponents, this pot gets really big really fast, and we have the kind of hand that can trap us into paying a lot.

check, and reeval turn. probably call one bet on flop.

I'm leaning this way too. Catching a vulnerable top two pair in Omaha doesn't make up for the fact that our previously very strong hold'em hand is now less than top pair. I'd say that our overall hand is now less strong than it was preflop. This isn't a spot to build a big pot, and while I sometimes might want to protect the vulnerable top two in PLO, it's not worth investing significant money with a likely crushed hold'em hand.

Since interest in this thread seems to have dropped off, I'm going to go ahead with the hand. I forgot to spoiler-conceal the flop, but I'll do it this time.

good turn for us. nobody seems to have us beat, so charge them to see the river. 1/2 pot to 2/3 pot.

Let's go right ahead with that action, 2/3 pot rounded down to $11.

barring info on BTN, I fold. Make a note to watch how he handles delayed c-bets going forward. If he's tough enough to raise with weak cards here just because he can tell we don't have a lot, avoid playing oop with him. we set up a classic squeeze for him, but that doesn't mean we can go to the mat with mediocre cards.

I'd second that fold, even if I didn't know his cards. Results and rabbit below.