A new game to our dealer's choice home game.

7 card stud-ish... 2 down cards, 5 up cards, hi-low

Our game is played dealer ante, 50c min bet, $5 max, bet and 3 raises.

Deal 2 down cards to all players.
Expose 3 cards in a row, next to the stub
A - B - C - stub

Player 1 (left of dealer) can buy card A for 50c, card B for $1, card C for $1.50, an unseen card off the top of the stub for $2, or fold. Repeat for all players, until everyone has 1 card.

Betting round, action begins with high hand showing.

4th street. Remaining player to the left of the first shopper in the last round gets to 'shop' first. Repeat until all remaining players have 2 cards.

Betting round, action begins with high hand showing.

Game continues until all remaining players have 2 down and 5 up cards.


Creates some big pots, monster hands and takes a bit longer than usual games to deal (but is faster to determine winners than some of our usual games too).


Originally declared as a qualified low the 1st time, somehow forgotten, and now called as any low.


Changed once to let left of the high hand shop first, but the same player got to shop first most streets, and we decided it was randomly unfair.

Different players suggested that different positions were at an advantage/disadvantage, sometimes in conflict with each other. Sure one player may get to shop earlier (advantage) but another player may get to see the hands developing before shopping (advantage). The player to your left may get to shop twice between your selections, and you may get to shop twice before the player on your right.

Big high hands, a mixture of wheels (lock low) and crappy lows (but board locking your opponent for low) winning.

One suggestion to increase the prices of cards was shot down quickly, another suggestion to include buying the card off the stub, but keeping it face down for a premium also shot down.

Game does take a while to deal, giving those early folders a chance to stretch, hit the bathroom.

I was talking to a couple of guys from another home game, told them about evil (another 2 down, choose 5 up) game that I really enjoy calling. They told me about this game. It has not disappointed (but maybe I'm just running well).


Open for comments, questions, suggestions.

So once A, B and C are sold, the remaining players can only buy the $2 stub card?

On 4th street, by "players have 2 cards" you mean just one more up card than they had before the round started, right?

Corrections to OP

Thank you. I missed that important part. Every player has a choice of 4 cards to buy, the cards are moved from TOS to C to B to A, and a replacement card from TOS to C (unless TOS was bought, in which case no cards are moved).


Yes, at the end of 4th street players have 2 down and 2 up.

The more you tell us about the crazy games you spread, the more I'm starting to hate my locked-into-NLHE home game friends.

It's a fun night, not serious poker.

My secondary group, good for midweek afternoon Pineapple Open Face Chinese poker, was chatting yesterday about the fact that a couple of us taught the rest how to play NLHE years ago, and now there is a regular game on Friday nights. Not all the guys stuck it out, and a few new ones have joined, but they are still a NLHE group for the most part.

Omaha is a 'safe' departure from the regular NLHE, but I strongly suggest playing spread limit, 1-5 BB, instead of PLO (and never NLO). Omaha plays much bigger, and people will go broke and hate it quickly if the pot sizes aren't controlled.

From there, all sorts of variations are possible, and fun. Players just have to realize that with all the combinations possible, there are going to be MUCH better winning hands at showdown.

Actually, I'd prefer if the DON'T realize this. But the idea of spread limit might be a good idea to try and ease them in. With the holiday coming, I'm going to try and politely force one evening of fun in the mix.

That game is nuts. With the right crowd and stakes, it could be a lot of fun.

Thanks for the clarification. I was hating the game until you made those edits.

As mentioned in the OP, I learned about the game from some other guys who aren't in our game. After a few conversations, and texts, I decided to call it at our game.

One of my concerns with a couple of games that I call, is the problem if we run out of cards. We play 8 handed, and with a game that gives players 7 cards, that can lead to the need for a common card. Our game plays very loose and more people stay in longer than they should. Played 'properly', I'm sure there would be little need for a common card, as most players should be folding, not chasing non-nut hands.




The past session, on 7th street, with 6 players left, there were 3 exposed cards, and 4 left in the stub.


I know what I thought should be done at the time...

I know what the table wanted to do at the time...

I know what happened...


But I'd like to hear your thoughts.


My source for the game revealed that they play 6 handed, and I/we would have to improvise.

I think technically you deal to the last card in the stub, then mix the last card w the exposed cards and burned cards, shuffle, burn, and then finish dealing.

I wouldn't have a problem with before dealing 7th street, saying there aren't enough cards, and take exposed and burns along with the stub, shuffling, burning one, and dealing.

If it's a friendly home game, personally I like a community 7th street. Just adds a wee bit of spice to the hand. But that's not proper (i believe), and depending on the mix of players and the stakes, wouldn't fly very well. So I wouldn't recommend this one unless you house is full of donks like me. Even one objection to a community 7th street, I think you have to go with shuffling the exposed and burned.

This set of players doesn't burn for stud games, and only 'usually' burns for flop games. They also don't mind using every card in the deck. So for a traditional 7-stud game, we'd be fine with 6 players and 7 unused cards. However in "Shopping", players have choice to take one of 3 exposed cards, or an unseen one of the top of the deck. With 6 players left, and 7 unused cards (3 exposed, 4 in the stub) only the first 4 players will have 4 cards to choose from. The 5th and 6th players will have 3 exposed and 2 exposed cards to choose from only. A disadvantage.

ah that's what you meant by exposed cards. Hmmm.... Well, it should be fair for everybody, so I'd cut out one of the ABC piles before the first person on 7th street gets to pick. I guess you should take all 3 ABC cards before the first player has a crack at it, shuffle them in, set up piles AB no C, or BC no A, I'm already confused.

Yeah.

I spoke with the guys that play it (6 handed) and one said they have played it with just 2 exposed cards, calling it Let's Make a Deal. I pointed out that they still get to the same number of cards used. Would have just changed to 2 exposed 5 in the stub, and the 5th player would have gotten a 'fresh' card, while the 6th still doesn't.

The obvious 'problem' is that people are too loose (staying in when they shouldn't), too passive (not betting enough to cause people to fold) or some combination of both.

I mentioned that there was a specific case in point. The host had a pair of tens showing, and was preparing to buy the top card. Multiple other players advised him to fold, asked why he was still playing and he responded that he was drawing for quads and wanted to try to make it. The player with quad queens showing just smiled and shook his head.

if I can find a cheap flight, save me a seat

LOL. Closed game, already waitlisted.

I had to miss the first game they held, after lending my chips and cards, and for some reason (I know why) I wasn't invited to play again for almost a year when I made some calls and asked some pointed questions.

It's really a fun night, and I'd play it for pennies.

I play nearly the exact same game with my group, but for us, it is a 6 card game, dealt 1 card down to start, and the buy 5 more. This would solve a lack of cards if no one folds etc.

Also, the way we play, to start, you flip card A, and the buyer must decide whether to buy or pass. If you pass, and go on to card B, you cannot then purchase card A. And so on. Likewise, if first player buys card C, then the next buyer must choose whether to purchase card A or B, if he reveals card C, then A and B can no longer be purchased.

We used to play that all 5 purchased cards are up cards, but over time have evolved to where now, if you purchase the blind card off the stub (card D if you will), it is a down card. Thus, different players may have differing numbers of up and down cards.

Finally, we also play a wild-card version of this game, if you are into that. In that case, all cards are up cards (aside from the initial dealt card). If any of your up cards match your down card, they are wild. This game obviously usually results in VERY strong winning hands, i.e. 5 of a kind/straight flushes and perfect lows.

I've thought about making it a 6 card game. I have similar 'running out of cards' concerns, like when we play evil.

I do like the pain of buying a good card A, just to see the next card be a great one. But that seems to be something that effects different players in different ways, ie, if I'm Seat 2 and Seat 1 passes on cards A,B and C, then I have an advantage of seeing the exposed cards to choose from.

There have been suggestions on how to keep the stub card down. Although I like it, it presents an opportunity for mistakes in play.

We're already getting pretty good hands (quads/straight flushes, wheels and 6 smooths), I can only imagine with wild cards

Finally, does the same person start the card selection each round? If not, how is that determined?

First round is started by the player to left of dealer, subsequent rounds started by showing high hand.

Its a fun game, one of the favorites in our group.

Does it have a name?

Does it play high low?

Are people paying for each card?

Once, I called it with left of the high hand shopping first. It didn't go over well, but let that player make a great low.

It seems that giving the high hand first crack would be a big advantage on those later streets, but perhaps people will get a chance to see what they need to beat?

In our group we call this game Buck You Down. Plays basically exactly how you laid out in your initial post. Card A is 50 cents, B is 75 cents, C is $1, and if you opt for blind down card off the stub its $1.25. Betting round after each completed round of card purchasing.

Game plays high-low, no qualifier. We play coin declare at the end, no betting round after declare (thats pretty much for every game we play).

I certainly see what you mean, in that depending on how you set up buying rules, it may advantage some players slightly more than others. However, first off, in my group people arent really too concerned about that relatively minute advantage. Also, given that who knows when a card may come out, you never really know whether its better to be buying early or later, unless you want a card already out on the board. In our game, given that high hand showing starts next round, it can certainly come into play strategically, in that someone may be buying relatively late in one round, but know that they will buy first next round due to their showing cards.

Thanks. I may try to introduce that version tonight....

If you want a card revealed, you can't take one of the already revealed cards...

So much pain, I dig it!!!

It was "Let's Make A Deal" and went over well with a few players, a few others weren't happy that it took so long.

Started by revealing A, B, & C for player 1. Player 1 bought card B.
Card C was moved down to the now empty B spot, but the C spot was left empty.
Player 2 declined to buy A or B. *** Bought D, kept it face down.

*** Once Player 2 declined to buy A or B, I could have just filled in C and given Player 2 the option to buy C (up) or D (down). Instead, if there were open spots, players could ask to have them filled, or buy D, keeping it face down.

I suppose there is a non-optimal strategy to not fill the empty spots and deny others the information about another card you do or don't want.

I think everyone moving forward just asked to have it filled, and that's how we'll roll from now on.


Problem 2 - Because of the different numbers of up and down cards, on 6th street, the player that shopped first, also shopped last, getting his 7th card on the same round. He was supposed to shop last in the 7th round. Felt bad and/or missed his draw, and folded.


Problem 3 - Some players had 6 total down cards, completely obscuring their hand. I thought it was obvious they were going low, as they continued to pass on high cards to draw off the stub. Some chat about limiting the number of cards that could be kept down.


I'll give it another shot on Thursday!!!

Interesting...I'm not sure if I gave you the impression thats how we did it, or if you just added the wrinkle on your own, but in our game you cant buy a down card from the stub until all 3 slots are filled on the board. Or, maybe nobody has ever tried it . In our game, if player after player 1 buys card C, if player 2 declines both A and B, then the only option is to roll over card C.

Yes, the down cards can make it confusing in terms of when the round is over, not sure how to handle that exactly, but I think as you get used to the game, you get better at taking note. We tend to have people start betting before everyone has shopped a round, but obviously the short-carded person usually puts an end to that quickly.

ALso, yes, having a lot of down cards can make the hand difficult to read, but as you say, you can glean info by what cards they pass up on the board.

Yeah, in hindsight, we'll fill all the spots before getting a shot at the stub.

We don't allow betting until everyone has the same number of cards. In evil, each card taken is a chance to bet, but most cards are checked.

It's dealers choice, so I can limit the down cards, but I'll ask to get a feel for whether people want limited down cards and how many if they do. I agree, you can tell a lot about the cards they don't take. The only real danger I faced with an obvious full house for high, was that one of the lows caught quads or a straight flush. We have seen a lot of straight flushes for high.

I meant that people accidentally try to start a betting round before everyone has bought, we dont allow betting until everyone has the same number of cards.

We dont have as many straight flushes as you seem to have, but since we only play 6 cards total, you only get one misfire so to speak.

Also, not sure how your games have played out, but in our game, "defense" comes into play not infrequently, where people will buy a card that doesnt necessarily help them, but blocks an opponent...for example if you are showing a pair of kings, someone else who may also be going high (especially for example if they are aiming towards a flush) will buy a king from the board just so you dont get it. It happens more often in our game than you would think, that some people get so caught up in playing defense and blocking other people, that they dont end up making any sort of hand for themselves either.

Ah, OK. That was our plan, only the whole table missed a players mistake (buying 2 cards on the same round). This week, I was very careful about confirming the number of cards.

We're still starting the shopping with the player to the left of the player that started that last one.

Our game has a few players that are all about making the nuts, and not chasing 2nd nut hands. Having the 7th card helps, as does the lack of defense (next paragraph).


Ahhh, defense. Yes, there are multiple calls for defense in a night, we are very loose with our OPTAH enforcement.

I'm taking a card that appears to help a player make a hand better than the one I think I'm likely to make, assuming we are going the same way.

However, I'm not taking the King, as if I see you with a pair of Kings, I'm assuming my flush is not good and either I've got to chase a straight flush (assuming K isn't our suit), or go low. I'm not drawing to a flush when I see another player with a pair up. I'm putting them on a set (maybe 2 pr) and full houses happen a lot.

I'm also taking that card that gives a player a near lock, if I don't want the betting to increase (and players to drop). I may want/need more players in the hand, drawing to worse than me. Ex, I'm going high and have made a likely winner for half the pot. I'm not letting the player to my left to get a card that locks them into a low winner, if it will chase players out.

Conversely, if I'm locked in at one direction, I'll pass along helpful cards to keep a player in the fight for the other direction, even taking cards that they would be stuck with (see evil).

Finally, I'll pass along a monster card, if I think I'm leading the other direction but vulnerable. Ex. I have a low full house, or a flush. The other high players don't have anything really going. I'll pass that wheel card to the player going low, they bet, I raise, it gets capped. My competition for high will drop. I've just got to make sure that I can beat the low draw turned high (wheel=straight).

There are some deep strategies at work in these card passing games. Most people don't go past (does this card help me).