Hey all,

I've not posted before but been reading the forums awhile and listening to the pokercast as well.

I play in a home game every week and have been doing this for about 4-5 months now. I've won on occasion, but I not as much as I think I should. I've also been playing daily online in the $1 and $3 sit n go's on stars and have had good success, i'd say I cash in these 90% of the time and have a won a few as well.

I feel I understand the game alot more than the players I play in the home game and that i'm starting to develop my game alot and develop my own style as well. I've read lot's of poker books and watched lots online of video's etc and think I have a grasp of the game.

However I get no respect at the home game and no-one ever sees me as a threat. I feel as though i'm the best player and I showed this in this weeks game by taking a commanding chip lead after the first 4 or 5 hands or so. Yeah the cards were with me, however there were some tough calls which I got right. I did bust out with a mis-read (lost to an A high flush with my K high flush), which I can accept as a mis-read and a slight mistake, however my play up to that point was pretty much flawless etc... pushing people off marginal hands, capitalising on the hands I had.

I do raise alot, however I don't put myself as loose, more tight aggressive. I'll fold bad hands and when I think i'm beat of course.

Is the reason I raise alot the fact that people see me as a loose player and are giving me respect, should I play tighter and only call and raise with the top 10 premium hands?

It's driving me mad, i've put alot of time and effort into learning the game but if I can't get respect at my home game, what chance is there for me when I start playing live tournaments?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

C

Are you saying that raises don't get respect and people are calling you?

Surely that is a good thing (if you say you're tight and therefore playing genuine hands).

Nah that bit i'm happy with. I'll get called and that's good obviously. It's more the fact that despite the effort I put in people still see me as a noob and a bad player even though I think i've developed as a player.

As long as you think you're great then that's what counts.

Maybe you're one of those people that need a little cuddle every now and then. In that case play cards with your family.

I have the opposite problem. I'm actually crap but everyone thinks I'm brilliant.

I think you probably have an inflated sense of your game and need to really re-evaluate your level of true understanding....first, there is no way you cash in 90% of your SNGs....if you can do that - you should quit your day job. I would suggest a play-tracking program to see where you really are and to identify your leaks. Also, it could be that you have an easily identifiable tell.

I'm not trying to bust balls here, just seen a lot of players with the "I'm much better than my play" attitude.....hopefully I am completely wrong and you are a damn good player simply on a poor streak. either way, the things I suggested will only make you better!

Keep in mind that 90% of what you read and view are strategies and moves that are made toward solid players. The tourney & cash game books are geared toward better players that are ALSO playing against better players. If your games aren't w/ better players than alot of your moves will go unnoticed, 1&3 dollar SnGs have a few decent players but more that are on the noob side.Just stay the course and I'd also strongly recommend tracking every session too (like mentioned previously) www.*************.com is a good free source.

H0neyM0nster I don't think I ever said I was a great player, so thanks for that little comment.

Re-reading my post though I suppose i've come across quite arrogant, which is something i'm far from. I'm under no illusions that my play can be better and that i'm in no way a great/good player. I'm average, however I do think i'm better than the people at my home game. CrazyJoe, your point is a good one and I have already started tracking my games.

I do cash often though, the micro stakes ones I play are quite "easier" to beat than the higher levels though and the majority of the time I at least to get to 3rd place so it's not like I make enough with those to quit the day job (I wish!).

Maybe it's time to try the next step up and play the $5-11 SNG?

C

Why does it matter if others think you're good? If you consistently win, the proof is in the pudding. I personally do not want my poker buddies to know how much I make at the game. I'd like them to think I'm an idiot who bleeds money.

Taking a commanding chip lead in the first few hands is nothing. It's not the first hand that matters, it's the last hand.

CrazyJoe - great point about the level of play....One of Doyle's tenets is basically don't waste your "moves" on players that don't appreciate them...when playing weak players basic strategy is often most profitable...with a few twists thrown in. And you can forget about bad players recognizing the represented strength or weakness of your hand based on you X times bb raises.

I've been where you are. And now that I'm no longer there - I realize that even if I do understand the game better than my opponents, they can still make observations of their own and play correctly against me - either intentionally or not. The better player not only understands the game better, they understand which adjustments to make against each opponent to optimally exploit the weaknesses of the at opponent.

I don't get any respect at my home game either. I used to care about 'getting respect' - now I don't.

Case in point;
I'm heads up against a very fishy, known calling station. The guy never thinks I have a hand. On the flop with two face cards, I'm open ended. I bet, he calls. The turn is a blank. I bet - he hates his hand, but calls anyway. On the river, I miss but bet anyway because my read on the guy is absolutely spot on - he really doesn't like his hand here and I've shown a lot of aggression. He tanks for a bit and calls with a pocket pair of 3's - an underpair to every card on the board.

Who's the bigger idiot in this hand? (Hint: not me)

After I had left the game, he remarked to another of my friends that "He really likes to bet like he's got it, doesn't he?" hmmm - I sense an adjustment coming - even if it is overdue.

Do not desire their respect. Respect yourself and desire only to make good decisions.

You are doing well by trying to improve. It's just time to keep improving. What adjustments can you make, knowing what you do now? What information do you need to collect to make better adjustments?

This quote helped me overcome 'how can they play like that' tilt;

"Everyone plays poker exactly the same way. As they please." - Tommy Angelo

So dubiousdrift,
Let me get this straight. You are up against a 'very fishy, known calling station', a guy who never thinks you have a hand yet you try to buff him?

You knew he was a calling station and you are surprised he called?
You knew he never gives you credit for a hand and you are surprised he called?

Think about that for a minute.

Ok ask the question again.

Who's the bigger idiot in this hand? (Hint: Its you).

You may have made the normal correct poker moves but against a player you KNEW would call.

FYI: The rest of your post makes good sense with some very good points

Maybe you have to dress cooler and act tougher. Try to act like the alpha male. Leader of the group.

Then they have to respect you.

Hmmmm....I have to agree here Nale, the key is that he "knew" this...I could (barely) understand the play if the intent was to gain some knowledge on a player or you actually thought you had a chance of pushing him out...other than that....well....

At the next game go up to the biggest guy there and beat him to the ground. Just keep swinging.

OR - dress up like a well-known soul diva and sing...R-E-S-P-E-C-T!!

I think sometimes the "pro" players forget that some guys are playing to play and don't care about the money. It isn't that they don't think you have a hand, they don't give a rat's behind if you do. They are calling because they don't want to fold cards that might hit a flop regardless of the odds of hitting the flop, turn, or river. Their thinking is that it is much worse to fold a hand that might win, than to lose money chasing hands. They aren't playing optimal strategy and that is why (as stated previously by JKMWCL) basic strategy works best against these types of players.

OP, congrats on being in such a great situation. I realize it's sometimes not as fun to play straightforward as it is to push someone off a made hand with an all-in bluff, but remember that the point of poker is to get the money, not to win in the most dramatic fashion. When you are able to embrace that fact, you will find it easier to dismiss the lack of "respect" you get at your home game and use it to exploit your opponents and consistently get the money. Good luck.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkk - nnooooooooo. poop.

Apparently, I can't proofread my own posts very well either.

You are entirely correct - I meant to say that I was not surprised by his calls - that I made two bad semi-bluffs and one bad bluff and was indeed the bigger idiot by a large measure.

My point was that he has no respect for my game. As a presumed 'better' player, I should have recognized that and made the necessary adjustment, but I didn't. It's hard to claim superiority in this case because I was the bigger donkey in this hand.

Sorry for the confusion.

Dubious....I actually thought that was what you meant...the rest of the post made way too much sense for that to be your conclusion!! Bust him next time!

Move to a house where they respect your raises.

I am laughing at the irony here. "Poster makes a claim of idiocy, screws up the claim and someones else states that post makes to much sense for him to be such an idiot." - or something like that...

I think I just got leveled - by myself....

Coincidently, I had my chance to bust him. I flopped an Ace high straight. He bet, I raised, he called. Turn was a 7. He check/raises me all in, I snapcall. He flips 77, river pairs the Ten. Oh well... still no respect

Ouch...I hope you congratulated him on his well played hand (so you can bust him the next five times he does that!)

1. You don't cash in 90% of your SNG's and you misleading yourself if you believe that. You also mentioned that you showed your great ability by taking the chip lead in the first 4 hands of a tourney. I hate to tell you this, but that really doesn't mean a thing. You can't decide on anything after 4 hands and if you don't have what it takes to win these tournaments, then your not as good as you think.

2. You say that people don't respect your game. Isn't that what we want as poker players? It makes it much easier to win big pots against people who think were a fish than against people who are scared to play pots with us.

3. You say you have read a lot of books. I suggest you read "Small Stakes Holdem" It gives great insight on how to beat people who play badly and call too much.

I always prefer that people underestimate my abilities, but that's just me, flying under the radar. I don't think I'm the best player at our home games, as evidenced by my win rate, but I am certainly not the worst. I always ask myself, if I was one of the best players at the game or in the world, would I want everyone to know it? Hell no, I'd never win. I would want them to think I am a complete fish/donk/idiot/moron so I could win more easily. As things stand, I get plenty of calls, and when they start thinking or saying that "Mike sure is playing tight these days" it'll be time to start going all blufftastic for a few weeks, make sure they notice, go back to tight. That's my home game strategy... not very deep. But it's for fun not profit.

At least half the people in my home game use it as an excuse to get sh@t-faced drunk!!! The key in these games is to play ABC poker, because they don't care or pay enough attention to you for you to earn an "image". Hell. they only look at their cards and have no idea what you are "representing" with your "moves"

Just my 2 cents,
Darrin