7th street, 3 players, $$$ is all in before 7th street is dealt. There is no action on 7th street!!!

Main pot is ~$400
Side pot is ~$120 (player 1 and 3)

Player 1 (me) has low and AA

Player 2 is showing likely best low.

Player 3 has mixed bag.

Once cards are dealt, I show my 7 low and pair of aces.

Player 3 looks at my cards and says, "I missed, your good" and mucks. Can't beat me for either. I scoop side pot (or so I think).

Player 2 flips over 7th street card. There are 2 cards stuck together. Player 2 has 8 cards. It is obvious they are his 7th street card. They are not mixed with original 2 cards. There was no action on the street and player 2 already had the best low. Neither card helps him. (I would split main pot with player 2).

Here is the problem, player 3 got the wrong card because player 2 has what should have been player 3s original card. Also, 1 of player 2s, 7th street cards would have given player 3, two pairs and 1/2 of everything.


summery
Player 3 no longer has cards, they are in the muck because we do side pots 1st and player 3 could not beat me in either direction. It was very quick. As soon as player 3 bricked on 7th. Player 3 mucked very quickly. Player 2 has 1 extra card dealt on 7th street. There was no action and he did not need either of these cards. His hand was made. He was also not in side pot so he had no need to check the card earlier. He was watching us and our side pot action. He did nothing wrong here. It was dealer error. (also he only had his 7th street cards for a couple of seconds.)

There is no action to speak of, so the dealer error should be fixed if possible. If player 3's cards are completely irretrievable, that's a pity, because I would otherwise kill the errant card he was dealt and give him the bottom card from the packet that was dealt to player 2. Even if player 3's hand is irretrievable, player 2's hand plays using only the top card of the packet. That's the best I can do as "floor," given this information.

However, since you're player 1, there is a much simpler solution: concede the high half to player 3. You saw his tabled hand long enough to know that the high half is rightfully his, and the low is not in contention anyway; it's player 2's half of the pot. This option is the right ethical thing to do, it should make everyone happy, and it makes you look like a stand-up guy.

Correct me if I wrong, but shouldn't 7th street, if all players are all-in, be dealt face up? Don't know if that would have solve this problem or not.

I don't think so, not in a cash game anyway. All-in or not, all players reserve the right to muck without showing their hole cards. That should include not revealing whether 7th street helped them, IMO, but I'd wait for pfapfap or another dealer to come around and clarify.

Yeah if we're talking friendly home game crowd with people you know, I'd probably just do what Jim said and give player 3 half of the side pot.

If we're talking straight by the rules, imo it's player 2's obligation to ensure he/she has the correct amount of cards. However, if the seventh street cards are absolutely indistinguishable from the rest of his hand, I reckon you would treat the bottom of the two cards as a useless scrap of paper.

The impression I got is that player 3 would win half of the side pot and half of the main pot.

If you know the card would definitely give him a hand to beat you, concede the pot. It's the easiest way to fix this.

in a cash game, 7th street is dealt face down, even if the players are all in. House rules may vary, naturally, but face down is the standard.

If P3 never tabled a hand, and is only saying "I would have hit 2 pair", I'm not sure I volunteer to ship him my half of the pot. people's minds play tricks on them when the cards aren't visible any more, and I don't like the precedent. your cards are your receipt for the pot. I'm not saying I'd never do it, or would think someone was a sucker who would, just I can easily find reason not to.

strange situation, certainly. Normally the only way to cost yourself the pot on a procedural point is if YOU do something procedurally wrong, and I don't see where P3 went wrong. GL trying to hold onto your cards in a casino after conceding the side pot just to see what P2 tables.

Player 3 tabled for about 1 second as he mucked them. It was quick enough that if the player had had a straight, flush or 2 pairs I would have likely missed it. I saw the cards and saw a pair but I did not get a good enough look to know if the new 7th street would have paired. (though I trust and believe the player)

I also was not clear to the order of the two cards player 2 was dealt. The dealer seemed convinced which order they were dealt, but I did not see them until they were both face up on the table and I had no idea of the order.

I offered that player 3 could fish the cards out of the muck even though they were mostly mixed. We had all seen the 4 up cards clearly so that would help. I then wanted to re shuffle the remaining deck with the 3 miss deal cards and re-deal both players 7th street. This was shot down.

I ended up losing the pot. I trust all the players (I have played with them at leats 100 times) but still feel weird about it. I feel that if player 3 had been mis-dealt a winning card. He would have demanded keeping it. It felt like a bit of a free roll for player 3.

It's amazing that as much as I have studied the rules of poker. These strange spots still come up.

That is a crazy situation, but how do two cards get stuck together? Not sure I've ever seen that in a casino or home game. If you're playing for fairly serious money here, someone should probably invest in better cards...

Regardless though, I think player 3 should have to keep the card he got, and player 2 should not get to keep either card. This would theoretically punish player 2 but not player 3. This seems fair because player 2 is the only one who really could have fixed the error.

Of course it is effectively the opposite since player 2 didn't improve his hand anyway, but player 3 could have been helped by the mistaken 7th street card, and if so I still think he should keep it.

I mean, let's say it happened this way, there was still action coming on 7th street so things didn't happen quite so fast. player 1 is dealt a card, player 2 is dealt two cards, player 3 is dealt a card. Then player 2 looks at his cards and sees he got two. Are we really going to trust him which one he got second, and give that card to player 3?? No way! I think I would not hill his entire hand, although if he has already mixed them into his other two downcards, I might have to kill all his downcards, if not his whole hand (in this case he can't make a low with 4 cards so would be screwed just playing his upcards anyway. Regardless, I think most places would leave player 3 with the mistaken downcard, and that seems fair to me.

Yeah, it's pretty screwed up. Cards do stick together. Usually I can feel it when I'm dealing, so I correct it before anything happens. I mean, it's twice as thick as normal. Feels weird.

Without knowing which card was which, you can't really do anything about it. And if they're mixed with other hole cards, that's even more problematic. He got a random card, but stud has rules to keep the "proper" order of things if someone folds to no bet, so there's a lot of culture here to keep in mind.

As you said, he probably wouldn't have a problem keeping the wrong card if it helped him win, so there's merit to the freeroll protection. I'm leaning towards dead hand, you win the side, and if Player 2 can win the low with his first six cards, that's good enough for me.

^ What? You actually think player 3's hand should be dead, the guy who definitely did nothing wrong? Or you just mean it keeps the wrong card and is a losing hand that he mucked?
Honestly I don't find the fact that he has already mucked his hand to be significant here, as it stays a loser either way.

They are good plastic casino cards. It is hot and humid/ mid summer weather. Its not common, but it happens.

Even if you are sure which card should have gone to player 3 and you are sure that would have made player 3 the winner, I am reluctant to correct it because I have concerns that Player 3 is freerolling here because I question whether it would be corrected if it went the other way. Player 3 gets a card that makes him a winner .... but if you correct the cards he isn't a winner .... I suspect you aren't going to be able to correct it ... because he isn't going to tell you which card was the last card.

Reminds me of Fast Eddie's bad beat from the late 70's in 7-card stud 8 (hi/low split). Cliff's: He lost a $10K pot with a steel wheel that he made on 5th street. He never looked at his 7th-street card before the end of the hand because it was irrelevant, except that he didn't notice that he had been dealt two cards that were stuck together. Dead hand. Fascinating story, and I hope it never happens to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-3JA47eTMg

"Dead? you're dead M----- F-----!!!!"

good story.

I will never tell another bad beat story after hearing that one, holy crap.