I play in a league that meets at least once a month. One of the players (player A) is kind of the organizer of the game, as well as other games. He doesnt host the league at his house, but he notifies people about it and makes floor decisions when needed.

Player A recently was preparing for a seperate tournament that I didnt play in. A few of the league members were there, I believe at least two or three. Player A on purpose gave himself and Player B and Player C extra chips at the start of the tournament. Player A wins tournament while B and C dont even cash. Player A tells B and C about the extra chips, which neither were ok with.

Word has now spread, and people dont want him playing in the league anymore. Players B and C are unsure how they feel, but other players are choosing to stay nuetral or are steadfast in their belief Player A should not be playing.

I only know player A from a non poker friend, but he has always been straight up and legit in dealings with me. He runs (holds the money for) football pools and fantasy leagues, he lends people money to make sure the league games go off, he is genuinely nice and easy to get along with. I would never peg him a cheater, and am in shock that he did this. He says he didnt think of it as cheating (while admitting it still is...because it is) and only wanted to help player B and C. I think he is remorsefull. I also think he would not get away with this or any other cheat at our league games, ecspecially now.

I think we are all going to vote on the matter this weekend. I am inclined to let Player A play with us, and just always have in the back of my head to keep an eye on him. I am sure there will be people that are going to label him a cheater and not want him playing. I know of at least one.

This is the first time I know of any cheating going on with any of the game's players. But I have always felt there to be some soft playing and collusion between certain players, but this is a pretty legit and well run league.

For whatever its worth, I was introduced to the league by player A, who I only know from a mutual non-poker friend. Since then, I have befriended Player B to an extent (we take smoke breaks together) and the owner of the house. Other than that, these people in the league are more or less strangers, or any other reg at the card room.

I'd have to be pretty hard up for a game to play with folks whose ethics I held in question. I'd certainly never invite someone of this character into my home. Folks do make honest mistakes and can recover from them -- it's the dishonest mistakes that forever cloud someone in my eyes.

Good luck to you and your league. Really sounds like a tough spot.

The "only wanted to help players B and C" line is hilarious given what he did.

Cheats are cheats. He sounds like a petty and somewhat incompetent cheat but he's a cheat. What you decide to do can reasonably be based on a lot of factors but basing it on thinking he's not really a cheat shouldn't be one of them. He is and will probably continue to be in some capacity.

Another thing to note is that he is a known cheat in your circle. If you play a large part in him staying and anything shady happens in the future you'll catch some backlash. On top of that there will always be suspicion. You ever hear people say Pokerstars is rigged every time they take a beat? Same thing here. Somebody else cheats you don't think they're going to think he (and possibly you, who backed him, by extension) were in on it? He does some dumb ass thing like put chips in your stack you really think you're going to be able to play off you didn't know about it after you knew he did it somewhere else and backed him for this game? He deals you runner, runner you don't think somebody from the "rigged" crowd is going to scream bloody murder and assume the chip sneak has graduated to card mechanic?

Again, there could be reasons to still let him in. Thinking he's remorseful or actually buying the help B and C garbage is silly though. I mean actually look at that. He SHOVES EXTRA CHIPS IN HIS OWN STACK, shoves some chips in some other connections' stacks so he can later tell them about it/be owed a favor/collect some if they win, and you think he's remorsefull after he says he was just trying to help out B and C? He's flat out still lying/conning his way out of the incident even now that isn't remorse. Not to mention if he is that stupid and it somehow is genuine he probably doesn't fully grasp what makes what he did wrong. Lose, lose there.

If you just want to be a super nice guy (probably at the expense of others), want to cheat with him for whatever reason, think you need him to keep the games running, think he's a huge donator who's great for the games even if he does occasionally pull off an amateur scam, or for some other reason decide to try to keep him around that's your decision and certainly could be fine. At face value "he's remorseful/a good guy" is pretty weak and shouldn't be part of your decision though.

He didn't "sort of cheat" or "kind of cheat," he 100% blatantly cheated. And to make matters worse, you say that he still doesn't really look at it as cheating, and you can only think that he might be remorseful.

As the others have said, you either have to be utterly desperate for players or be the most passive person on the face of the planet to allow someone like this to continue to play in your game. Once a cheater, always a cheater, and you and the others shouldn't have your game ruined by constantly having to monitor his actions closely from here on out.

Vouching for him might not look so good on your character in the eyes of others as well, as you are practically condoning cheating by voting to let such a guy remain.

I may give a guy like this another chance to play, if he is truely remorseful and this is an isolated instance, but I'm not playing in any games he's running.

How were players A, B and C able to start a tournament with extra chips without any of the other players noticing?

Nope, not interested in playing with anyone like that. Think hard about vouching or backing this guy for all of the reasons listed prior.

Unless he can own what he did, admit it was wrong, and show real remorse, do not let him play. Any sort of rationalization or qualification shows his true character even more than what he did.

I don't know, kind of thought this myself. I always check everyone's stack I thought other people did this too.

I think he knows this was cheating.

He also admitted all this to me before anyone could tell me, for whatever that's worth. I haven't spoke with any other players but him.

The main reason I think I would still let him play is I doubt he could pull this or any other cheat off at our game, ecspecially now

Your qualifier that "you think" he knows is the point of my post.

He'll just find better ways to cheat.

Something to consider: letting him play sends the signal to OTHER cheats that it's okay to cheat. While everybody is watching Player A to make sure he's on the level, Player Z is now cheating in ways you couldn't've imagined, because you've sent the message that cheating is okay.

cheaters going to cheat, yeah, yeah. You can stop him from miscounting starting stacks by paying attention but the true problem is his internal willingness to scam people when they're not looking...

I DO think people can learn and change, though. Especially if you're young, like under 25. I think most people under 25 haven't really learned the importance of reputation yet -- at best they've been well-trained or fear consequences.

When I started playing a regular home game there were a few people, one in particular, who I had to watch carefully. Splashing pots a chip or two short, peeking a neighbors cards, not calling out cards with natural marks... small-time stuff like that but as has been said: willing to take advantages if they appear.

But I'm a stand-up guy and am constantly mentioning things that improve the game. We started stacking bets in front of us, I brought some new plastic decks, I took over the bank and ran a tight ship. All of this despite it not being MY game, but I was gentle and people appreciated the cleaner procedures.

Not only did this game clean up considerably, but the "one guy", as far as I can tell, slowly learned to appreciate the value of square dealing. I think he needed to see it demonstrated to him that a reputation is really worth more than the penny-ante advantages you can get from small-time scams. This is not really obvious to anyone, and takes a lot of time to learn.

My friend was over 40, so there's hope. Be firm that this kind of crap is NOT acceptable and has a big cost, and set a good example yourself.

It's not that hard. Plenty of times in poker games someone will have a dirty stack and not even notice it themselves.

What about players b and c? Are they somehow guilty because they were given chips too?

I would know if I had extra chips, I think it's reasonable to think they had known too.

After sleeping on this I think I'm more skeptical of letting him play still.

Still in shock that he would cheat. It wasn't even a lot of money to be won. Why risk your reputation for what amounts to a few buy ins, ya know?