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Old 06-25-2012, 11:23 PM   #16
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Re: OPTAH

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakichu777 View Post
your value in the hand shouldn't come from an opponent's ability to read the board at showdown
And this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrange View Post
the game is likely better off protecting the weakest players from folding a winning hand anyway
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:36 PM   #17
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Re: OPTAH

I do agree with that, which is why I don't worry if somebody says something. I've told my opponent himself to table. But I do understand why some people could get very angry about it.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:56 AM   #18
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Re: OPTAH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakichu777 View Post

Perhaps I'm missing the bigger picture here?
Think about setting up a person during the night, for a big bluff, only to have someone wreck it. That could have a significant impact on your night's return... and how you have to play, from then on.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:58 AM   #19
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Re: OPTAH

I've played in the game wesrwood is describing. It's a close knit group of 40-60 year old men and women who have been playing 3-4 times a week at different venues for numerous years. I've only work with and known the host for 3 years, and he's a decent guy.

Wesrwood is an outsider; I was too. They have an us against them attitude. I haven't been there in a while, mostly because it's somewhat far and I don't get out much having 3 kids. The game is pretty soft, kind, and passive. Wesrwood is none of those at the table. They probably saw an opportunity to help 'one of their guys' out, not as an OPTAH violation.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:35 AM   #20
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Re: OPTAH

This:
your value in the hand shouldn't come from an opponent's ability to read the board at showdown

And this:
the game is likely better off protecting the weakest players from folding a winning hand anyway

Totally Agree. Also, this is were the role of a home game dealer becomes more important. Its the dealer's job to get the showdown moving. "table your hand or muck."
one of my biggest pet peeves in home poker game is slow showdowns. If the host is sitting in the game, he should be the one pushing for quick and clear showdowns.
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:04 PM   #21
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Re: OPTAH

Quote:
Its the dealer's job to get the showdown moving. "table your hand or muck."
casino dealers are trained very specifically to NEVER say something that encourages or discourages a player tabling his hand. The dealer reads hands once they are tabled, but until they are, they basically can't say anything.

I understand your frustration with showdown nonsense in home games, but most players feel very strongly that the decision to table or muck must rest 100% with the player holding the cards. You will get yourself in a lot of trouble someday if you say the wrong thing at showdown in the wrong context.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:19 AM   #22
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Re: OPTAH

Home games (not Underground rooms) vary from very tightly run, nearly casino style, tables to totally undisciplined drinking party cluster****s! The best ones have elements of both. If the host allows what you posted, and you are really uptight about it, then likely you should quit the game. On the other hand , if this is about the worst thing in an otherwise good group, then maybe you should just adapt and actully behave like them. Your choice in the end.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:09 PM   #23
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Re: OPTAH

Sounds to me like you're playing in a potentially VERY profitable game if a player constantly needs help reading his hand!

Also, dont think of the (minor) OPTAH violation in this situation as taking away from your winrate. Rather, think of it as removal of an added benefit that you shouldnt really rely on as part of your winrate to begin with. Said drunk Villain will make so many mistakes in his play that you dont need him to misread his hand in order to crush him.

By the way, I dont really consider this as much of an OPTAH violation to begin with. The players MIGHT have been trying to help him, but they may also just have been trying to speed his slow, drunk ass up and encouraging a faster showdown. I think this is more common and more likely.
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