Hey HP.

We are over half way through my tournament league this season and for the most part, things have been going really well. We are starting to have a solid player base and word of mouth is spreading quite quickly to attract new players. Just wanted to list a couple of situations that happen in my league-most of which happen every tournament we play.

Scenario #1:

Players not tabling their hand when all-in.

This is probably the thing that tilts me the most. Not only have I come out on the bad end of this situation twice of the nine tournaments we've played this season, but it has happened to several other players. Unfortunately, usually it is the same player refusing to table his hand.

Examples of this type of behavior would be a flop of J72 rainbow and you're all in with QQ. Villain calls your all-in but refuses to table his hand. He only says "you have me. I need to catch up." Board will run out 4x, 7x and then exclaim, "oh! I rivered trips," then proceed to scoop the pot after he turns over his Q7.

Another example will be at showdown and say the board is A58K2xxxxx. Player first to act shows K10. Villain sits for a while and shakes his head and sets his cards face down and says "you have me." Player begins to scoop the pot and villain then flips over a J first... and then flips over an Ace and will wait to see if anyone else on the table notices that Villain has the best hand.

If no one informs Villain that he has the best hand, he will then pretend that he didn't see his pair and exclaim he made a mistake. Often times the pot is being scooped and the board has already been picked up and cards have begun to be shuffled by the next dealer for the next hand. On the other hand, if someone does notice Villain has the best hand and verbally announces it, Villain plays dumb and says, "oh, you're right. Guess I wasn't paying attention." either way, villain obviously flopped top pair, good kicker in the situation and is trying to angle shoot the player who caught his pair of Kings on the turn.

Scenario #2:

Players who are not in a hand making verbal expressions (groaning while shaking their head, says things like "no way!" or "unbelievable!") when the board pairs (obviously giving a tell to everyone that they would have trips if in the hand). This happens by several fish-type players during my tournaments.

Scenario #3:

Players grabbing their mucked hands and showing others next to them who have also mucked and talking quietly amongst each other as the board gets played out by other players still in the pot. Same type of behavior goes on as scenario 2 with the head shaking and groaning.

Background info on my league:

In my league, all 3 tables are within very close proximity to each other. While I act as the floor/TD, I also play in my own tournament as well. If any of these situations arise at the table I am at, I of course cut off these scenarios as they happen. In scenario 1, especially if I am the dealer, I refuse to begin dealing the board or rest of the board until both hands are tabled. If someone else is dealing, I instruct them to do the same.

The problem that I sometimes run into is Villain being the one dealing. This particular player is an immediate family member who thinks he can play the game anyway he likes because of a mindset of thinking that his level of play is above others. He cannot ever take a beat without complaining and instructing the player he is against how lucky they were or how he is better than they are.

If this particular player is at my table, I do my best to instruct him as I would any other random player who is dealing the hand and is all-in. With this family member however, I try and do it without coming across with any attitude because I don't want to get into an argument and complain back and forth with guests present. I guess the next step would probably be to ban him from my tournaments for a short period of time, however being a family member, I don't want there to be friction because of a simple game of Hold Em. There is also the fact that a large portion of my player-base is immediate family members and it would be very awkward to continue playing future events with each other knowing that I have banned a family member from playing.

As far as scenarios #2 and #3, if these types of behaviors happen at my table, I again cut them off as I see them happen. As I deal, I pull all of the mucked hands to the side and place them in a separate pile so these scenarios can't even occur. However, at other tables that I am not present at, I see these problems occur every now and then and I do my best to speak up when the time is right.

The last thing that I want to do to my player base is come across as a rules stickler or that I am being too overly demanding. However, there is a certain way that I want my league run and it does slightly annoy me that I see these things continue to happen.

There are a few solid regulars that I know would help me out and play out a hand just as I was if I was present at the table so before the next event, I am thinking that I will contact these players and let them know that I'd appreciate if they would help other players play out a hand just as if I was present at the table.

One thing that I want to make abundantly clear is that in no way is it an option for me to sit out of these tournaments and just be the floor/TD. I have a love for the game and probably look forward to playing in these events the most. Just looking for someone else's perspective on how to bring up some of these issues when I am not at a table these scenarios occur on.

Thanks in advance.

I have one guy in my group who does scenario 1, but never has slow rolls it. Only holds the cards to the end.

I have several people doing scenario 2 and 3. I and/or someone else usually gather the mucked cards preflop to avoid some of the chatter. Its still tough. It's gotten better since I wrote on a dry erase board not to discuss hands in progress. It hasn't been completely resolved, but definitely better.

Scenario #1: The guy needs a solid talking to about his behavior and then a swift KITN for re-enforcement.

Scenario #2: Your never going to get recreational players not to talk about what they folded. The best you can hope to do is curb when they do it.

Scenario #3: As for the grabbing muck cards, you just need to train people when they're dealing to keep the muck in such a way that doing so would be problematic.

At the end of the day, it's a group of recreational players, and these things are going to happen to one extent or another no matter what you do. The best you can do is find a way to curb them (well, other than situation #1 where the solution is a solid KITN).

Scenario #1:
he must show his hand. Next time he is all in, wait for him to table it before you finish dealing the cards. If he still refuses to table his hand, start to push the pot to the other player.

Scenario #2:
Try reminding the players not to do this

Scenario #3:
have the dealer scoop up the mucked hands

I reread your post and see you are already doing this. Pick someone to act as assisr TD at the other tables

What marietta and DavidNB said.

Un-invite him for a while. Let him sweat any points lead lost. Then explain that not being a **** is a pre-requisite for playing.

It doesn't help, with a large percentage of family members as the player pool... but family members would get the QUICKEST smack upside the head, for acting disrespectfully in my house/ home game.

"Seriously, dude? If you wanna be an ass, save it for strangers you don't respect."



At the very least... start handing out in-game suspension penalties. Unless your game's atmosphere celebrates some of this brinkmanship stuff, smack it down and stomp it out.


This kind of stuff, from non-serious players, is hard to control without killing the atmosphere. Take an opportunity to do the same thing, when they're in the hand, then face down their outrage with the "See how it affects things, dude?" line.


Is this about how you want things to run, or how the players want things to go? That's, perhaps, a key question here. Are the majority of the players not bothered by this stuff? Perhaps you have to eat some of your bile on these issues... if that's acceptable.

I'd bring them up in between games, if you're going to take a harder line. Feel out some of the in-between players. Go directly to the villains and warn them of why you're clamping down and the effects of their idiocy.

I agree above about Scenarios 2 & 3 when it comes to recreational poker games. You may just have to loosen up so as not to kill any ambiance the gathering generates -- unless it has become a problem others have brought up to you. (In this case, I'd encourage them to help monitor the actions of dead hand players). We all want a well run, fun home game tourney, but unless you have a waiting list of players wanting to join the fun -- which I'm guessing not if majority is family members --then just work collectively to regulate the villains.

My main concern however is with Scenario 1: the moment villain mutters the phrase, "you have me" is the same as he/she mucking the hand and basically conceding the pot. There is no way I could allow anyone doing that to rake any pot. That needs to be addressed and resolved and cannot continue for the sake of your league.

Good Luck!

RROP - tourney
34. All hands will be turned faceup whenever a player is all-in and betting action is complete.

Seems straightforward. Decide how important it is to enforce. As long as they show, I don't have a problem with it. If it's important that they show immediately, you are going to have to come up with increasing consequences for when they don't (warn, sit out an orbit, 2 orbits, a level, the next tourney...). Be careful, if it's not important to the rest of the players, it may not be worth the trouble.


BTW - Not an angle shot. Just a douche move.

Been there, done that. Talked to the worst offenders and then made brief comments at the table ("Oh wow, you would have flopped _____", or "Cool, knowing you have the case ___, I can bet at will", "I can't believe you folded __ and would have made ____"). I didn't comment each time, nor did I pick spots purposely because I was in a hand or not. Just to make a point, not to argue. It's settled down for the most part. They are fish, don't chase them. Teach them.

I treat Scenario 3 the same as 2. It's a problem to some degree at almost every home game I've been too. As little as a player flashing cards to a neighbor once or twice a a night, to players sliding cards across the table while still in the hand (yes, true).

Relax. It's not supposed to be work. Small changes.