hey 2+2. i've been a lurker here for a while, never registered until now though. oh well.

on to the questions I have!

for starters, I am 21. i'm a poker dealer in a casino in Ohio.

I have been trying to get some home games going, but am running into some issues with people who are friends of friends, etc., that are unfamiliar with rakes (cash games), and general fees taken from a total buy-in (tournament) to support the host. I supply drinks, food, location, table, chips, and my overall expertise in poker, but some people have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept of a $20, $30, whatever the buy-in is is irrelevant, but that not all 100% of the buy-in goes towards the total prize pool.

I explain to them that it is to cover the cost of the table (which I home built, so materials, etc.), the food, the drinks, etc. while most of them, after being told this, are more acceptable of the idea, they tend to not be repeat customers, basically.

I am not skating over the explanation of things, nor do I attempt to be shady. I make it very clear that I 'garnish' I guess is an appropriate term, some of the money to help cover things. I also make sure that the people bringing their friends are aware of this system.

are there any suggestions as to ways I can present the idea without people being so apprehensive of the concept? keep in mind the age group, and that these people are not avid poker players. some are, and they are usually aware of the system, but the people who are not are thinking i'm simply trying to make a quick and easy buck cause i'm not actually playing.

I will give some examples of how I run a rake, and taking money from buy-ins:

for cash games I have a minimum buy-in 10x BB, which is how it is in a casino, typically. so that is usually dependent on what people want to play. other times there will be a cheap night, but that doesn't really matter. i'll do a $10 game for simplicity's sake. my chip setup has some quarters and dollars. I will normally do a 10% progressive rake up to 6x the minimum bet. if it were dollars, basically I stop at $6.00 no matter how much above $60 it gets. so in a game with quarters, it's basically a maximum of $1.50. not a lot.

for cash games, would it be simpler to just ask for a small flat fee from people as opposed to continually taking money? I usually have 8-12 people at my table. it's pretty large.

when it comes to tournaments, if it's a cheapskate night of like $10, $15, $20, i'll normally only take like 3 bucks from each buy-in. for games that are $30, $40, $50, and up, I normally do a dealer's bonus and just take that, and people don't object to this hardly ever. but typically I take between 3-5 from the buy-in.

is this unreasonable? also, on the rake, the bigger games I do 10%, and on some cheap games i'll do 5%. it also depends on if I am taking money from a bunch of people who I have no acquaintance to, vs people I have known for a decent amount of time.

some of my numbers might be off and/or not make sense, I am speed typing this after having got off work. let me know if you would like anything to be cleared up.

If you can't have a regular rotation at different players houses, just ask for 5-10 bucks for chips/pizza/pop, etc. Make it BYOB (variance can hurt you). Your rake concept is a little too much for casual players. They are at a friendly game, not a casino. Everyone would prefer a flat fee.

You're not going to get much support in here, OP. IMO, drop the rake and profit off of all the fish who are "not avid poker players". Surely, being a casino dealer, you are much more proficient at the game than they.

In B4 flaming.

Yea Id go with a flat fee ur setup sounds pretty good and u put time, money and effort into it so I wouldnt let people play for free.

FYI this is not a home poker game and is almost certainly illegal. Friends don't rake friends.

If you need to cover things just ask guys to help out and if they dont either don't provide it or you cover the cost. Plain and simple.

By your tone and the rake structure you come off as though you are trying to run it like a profit making machine and/or an underground club.

You never actually said I'd u were making a profit but i suspect at the end of the day after covering expenses you would be picketing the difference, right?
Edit: just read It's been tourney only so far...

I can totally see why people might think u are treating them as customers even if u are not. Up to 10% cash game rake and 30% might fly in an actual casino but for a home game It's gouging imo

Is having a rake generating game even legal where u live?

Basically I think u are going about it all wrong......look at it this way, I'd you want your game to survive long term you need to give people reasons to play and not excuses to not play.

I dont like the rake idea. Setup a donations box.

ok, i'm glad you guys agree about the flat fee. to be honest, I actually haven't had a cash game yet. no one has been interested in it. they all prefer tournaments. and I agree, 10% is too much. after thinking about it again for a minute, it is ridiculous. a flat fee would definitely be better.

and by rake, I did not word it properly. I did not intend for it to be the entire evening, only up to a certain amount. it was basically a different way of going about a flat fee, except once I hit a total number, i'd stop (just to the cost of food/drinks). I suppose this information would have helped, d'oh.

but do you guys have any suggestions on delivering the concept of paying to play? I mean, "to help pay for food/drinks/snacks" should be enough, but I guess it isn't. or maybe a general idea as to how much in different tourney setups? I just kind of wing it.

I should have put edit marks in this post here, as I did two edits.

also, no, I am not really looking to make a profit. only to help cover expenses. if I pocket any kind of surplus at the end of the night, it goes towards future food and beverages.

edit: inb4 "then why increase the amount of money you take at a higher limit table"

I do this because the nights obviously drag on longer, and breaks to go get food slow down the game and I wish to avoid this, so I prepare for an all-nighter in advance, basically, and stock up.

Your overall expertise in poker? I'm sorry lolwut? So among your friends you are like the god's gift to poker? They should pay you just to be in your presence, right?


No matter how you word it, it's rake.

you're right. i'll tell someone that you deal to the small blind and start the action under the gun. he'll be my new dealer. then when they have a question like"A bet 30. B bet 60, and C raised to 75. can he do that?" I won't tell him whether he can or not. knowing the rules and nuances of poker. what a joke. it's totally overrated.

oh, and who needs proper side pots? not this game.

can a high hand qualify as a low hand assuming no other low, nor the nut low comes into play? man, wish I had someone who knew the answer at this table

you're a trip man lmao get a life. i'm implying I know the rules of the game. go be a jackass in some other thread.

Have a plastic cup. Label it "Pizza Fund". Every time a pot in your 1/2 game gets over $30, take one dollar out of it and put it in the cup. Once you have enough money to cover the pizza, then stop putting money into it.

I can see you charging for food and beer, but once you start charging people based on nebulous concepts like "location" or "expertise", then you've crossed the line from a home game into a for-profit.

Ahh just read that you are playing tournaments. Only suggestion is to be completely transparent: total up how much you spend on food and drinks and divide by the number of players. If people still have an issue with this, then maybe try a pot-luck and make it BYOB - all depends on your group of players.

I guess my problem just stems from finding a consistent group of players. i'm not looking for a profit. i'm just looking to cover expenses for food/drink. byob is always an option.

and maybe I phrased expertise wrong. I am not implying that I am an expert, nor should you pay because I am one. I am just trying to state that I am going to be providing a quiet, relaxed atmosphere with food and drink, and that I will run my game with a pretty solid handle on the rules of poker, making it a smooth night. i'm not trying to make it out to be a commodity. just that I know what I am doing.

as for the location aspect of it, I am only 21. most everyone that plays is between the ages of 19-23. and I also live in a college town with a roommate, so people are still mostly living at home because campus is, well, right across the street. so location is a factor, but i'm still not selling it as a commodity. just as a place where.. nothing will go wrong assuming nothing ridiculous or random happens.

but thanks for your input.

If you are simply running the game but not praticipating in it, then yes it most definitely looks like you are running a business. Trying to convince people you are doing this simply because you like running poker games is going to be a hard sale.

And when you use the rake to recoup non consumables (cost of chips, cards, table, etc.) this most definitely crosses the line of "freindly home game" since at the end of the day nobody "participating" in the cost of these things get to use or keep any of it, only you do.

You're right, OP. If only I had a professional dealer who knew all the rules of the game, then my game would run smoothly and I wouldn't have to make sure side pots and raise sizes were proper. That would totally be worth 10%

Host a game +
Invite bad players +
???????????? =
Profit