Tonight for the first time in a few months I decided to play with a few guys from my college. I had just finished an exam so wanted to take it easy, but I didn't really want to play cash live (I'd rather play a home tournament for $10 or so). They were playing 25/50 and most of them were buying in for $20, so I bit the bullet and joined in anyway. I knew the game would be pretty easy, so it was mostly for fun anyway. The other guys were all recreational players, so I was definitely one of the better there, and in a couple hours or so had at least $50 on the table.

Surprisingly, there were two tables going, mine had 8 and the other 7. There were a lot of new faces, so it was cool to meet some new players. The guy to my right was pretty friendly, so we were talking a bit. I kept having to ask about the action because I don't typically play live.

Anyway, there were so many people that the chips ran out. Eventually we came to the idea to just use dollar bills. I opted to exchange some of my chips for a $20 and a few other guys did too.

A few hands later the guy on my right and I got involved in a hand. He raised the CO for about $3 and I flatted on the BTN with KQ. HU the flop came J88 and he bet $4. I looked at the rest of his stack (which looked to be about $8) and decided just to jam (I guess pretty much a tilt jam, I hadn't picked up a decent hand for about 4 orbits, and the game was so loose I couldn't really play anything. I convinced myself he was just continuation betting and the board was so dry, but it didn't really make sense in that spot). The second I jammed, I realized that I hadn't just jammed $8, but had jammed for his chips plus the $20 he had tucked under the chips. He snap called and showed AJ.

I immediately said something about not realizing what I had just done, and that I didn't realize he had that much behind. He asked me what I had, and I said nothing, KQ. He started taking my chips without saying anything, and I repeated once or twice that I didn't realize I was jamming such a big amount. The other guys all knew, I suspect, that I wouldn't get so out of line based on my playing style, but none of them said anything.

I was very frustrated at this point so I just put my cards back on the table and got my things to leave. Then, it occurred to me that I didn't even see the last two streets and I asked if they had played the hand out, and if any Ks or Qs had come up. The host replied that the highest card was a Q, I guess not hearing what I had said, and I told him that my hand was KQ. By this point they had already started dealing the next hand with the same deck and they asked "Well what do we do now?" I just said forget it, and left.

Yes, the whole situation is my fault for not being more careful, and I also realize it's only $20. I have losing days all the time, but just the frustration of the whole situation has left me on edge for the past 5 hours or so. I played online for a bit, until my eyes started to hurt, and made back $17 or so. But my question is, in a friendly game, would you consider this okay etiquette? Considering that I had repeatedly shown my ineptitude with live cash games, and immediately said that I had made a mistake--not to mention the fact that I had been talking to this guy and, had I not left the hand, would've won it--if you were in the same situation, would you have just taken the money and said tough luck? I looked the guy right in the eye and he just said nothing and took the $20 I had and the rest of my chips. For me, personally, I'm thinking at the very least some sort of a deal (ie whatever he had, discounting the $20) would've been more sportsmanlike.

I think there are several problems here, but in the end hero was his own worst enemy. Not that Hero is solely to blame, but all of the losses are his alone.

First off, cash playing rather than chips always offers up new ways to have confusion (and angle shooting). Running out of chips is a hosting problem if it happens beyond a single time. 500 dice chips cost something less than $50 and should be enough to run a game even of two tables.

Second, the hand should be dealt out to completion. Hero's hand has 25% equity. It is possible that Hero mucked his hand and that is why the board wasn't completed. If so, that is 100% Hero's error. Even if hero didn't say anything - just tossing your hand face down, gathering up your stuff and allowing your chips to be taken sure looks like a muck. Bottom line is each player should protect their own interests. Table your hand face up and wait for the board to run out before surrendering. I appreciate that Hero could have actually held the winning hand, but forfeited the pot because he didn't properly table his hand.

Third, Hero needs to be more aware of the villain's stack size. Reading the post leads me to think the villain's cash was not hidden from sight. There isn't a question about how many $20 bills he had in play, though that is a common place where misunderstanding occur.

Fourth, Hero might have had some claim about a gross misunderstanding of the bet size if he were calling. However, Hero bet all-in himself which the villain called. There can be no claim that hero didn't know how much he had bet, the claim is Hero misjudged the size of villain's stack. Hero could have asked for a count but he didn't.

Most of this problem was caused by various things hero did to himself. The host had a contributing role and perhaps the dealer did as well. But hero owns the situation and will suffer the consequences in full.

Hero was not treated unfairly. The villain has no responsibility for the situation unless the claim was his had hidden cash from sight. Even then, hero should be asking for a count rather than relying on his visual estimate of villain's stack.

Treat this as $20 in tuition and learn from the experience -=- DrStrange

So the hand ended before the turn and river were even dealt somehow? Did you muck your cards to the dealer? Sorry OP but how did this happen? Most places have a "cards speak" rule if your cards are retrievable. I guess I could be missing something in your OP. IDK what actually happened, but it sounds like you just gave up halfway through the hand and conceded the pot.

As to the $20 bill, well that sounds like it was totally on you. He did not have it in his shirt pocket or hidden in his beard did he?

You misread his stack. You somehow mucked before the turn. How does he owe you anything for this?

Sportsmanlike? Well this is a poker game after all isn't it? You usually win by capitalizing on mistakes by your opponent. You made some and lost a few bucks.

Next hand.

Thank you for the in-depth replies. I completely agree. I had never been so flustered about losing $20 before, except for the fact that it was totally preventable and my fault by #1 by not asking for a count and #2 not seeing the hand play to completion. Both of these I do mostly attribute to not being an experienced live player. Also, it was a "friendly game," so the rules really were not formal.

To clarify what happened, when I saw him getting ready to call, I said something like "Oh shoot I didn't have any idea you had that many chips". For most of the game, he was super short, but I guess had tripled up several hands back while I was in the bathroom. His $20 was rolled up and tucked behind a stack of chips opposite side of me, so it was technically visible. When I told him I had "nothing", I picked up my cards and tried to reason with him saying I would never have shoved that much money into this pot size with air, he just showed his cards, took my $20, and started stacking my chips. At this point, I was so frustrated that I dropped my cards down in front of me as if I was drawing dead (I did not muck them to the dealer), got up and started getting my backpack and shoes, and it basically felt in my head like the hand was over. Then it hit me that I had had two overs, and I asked about the runout. They played the hand but mucked my cards or something? I'm not really sure, but I was in such a weird mood that I didn't ask them to search the deck or anything (even if they agreed, then what?), and just left. This bothered me significantly, knowing that I let my emotions cloud my vision to the point of throwing away 25% equity in a hand, and also that nobody had vouched for me. I tried to clear my mind, but left wondering if they would've honored "cards speak" the whole way home and what I should've done differently.

I think a contributing reason of why I was so irritated also had to do with the fact that the last time I played cash, I was prepared to do battle with several buy-ins and ended up losing a decent amount of money ($120). After that session, I wrote a post on 2+2 questioning my playing (The first hand was a 3-way cooler, and I instantly lost $50, and there were a few more hands along the way, but it felt like I was steadily losing). At the game yesterday, one of the first things the guys were talking about was the host of my last game, basically, "Screw that guy," whom they had caught angle shooting and stacking the deck a few times. I asked them a little more about it and then told them about the hand I had played and they all confirmed that it was almost definitely him stacking the deck--that he always pulled some bs like this on the first hand. So, nearing the end of the game yesterday, I was feeling relieved to be up a little, rather than just burning money playing live.

Regardless, what's done is done and I will take your advice and see the $20 as tuition Hopefully, I won't put myself in a similar situation again.

You said you had 'at least $50' on the table? Did he take all your chips, or just the $35-ish you owed? Or did he have you covered?
Once you realised he had $28 behind and not $8, were you giving him half the pot back if he folded?

I had this happen when a player had a dirty stack and they let me change my bet. I pointed it out right away when I noticed and everyone seemed OK with it.

DrS and BG covered all the main points i'd make, and seems like you're cool-ish with chalking it up to the education fund. That's why lots of us play (or at least got started) with micro home games. I got started with the same stakes and same mistakes. Always table your hand, don't stand up til the pot has been pushed, don't be shy about asking for a count if there are bills in play, or at least a clear view if it's all chips.

I once got flustered at the casino during Omaha, similar way to what you describe, pretty sure I mucked the loser but not 100% sure, shoulda tabled. I was all in, about a grand in the pot.

But I gotta ask: You thought he had about $15. Between pre and on the flop, he put half of it in the middle. So wtf are you doing trying to bluff raise?

If the cards were face-down (and I don't see how they couldn't have been), I can't imagine how anyone observing could consider it anything other than a fold. Especially considering you did actually walk away from the table.

Sounds like a few lessons for $20. A bargain, if you don't have to repeat it.

I've mentioned more than a few times to my players that they should clarify the action if they have any doubts. That includes how much the bets are, but only a ballpark or clear view of chips behind.

I've kept a good eye out for players with dirty stacks at the casino, but most of my home games that run NL, don't run too deep.

tbh I think I had lost focus and was just on autopilot. I had had an exam earlier that day and was playing just to relax my mind. He seemed like an aggressive-fishy player, so I just jammed because the board was dry. It was the first mistake I had made since I sat down (granted, it was a major one that caused the whole situation). I guess I was just bored and tired of being card dead and tried to make a dumb move.

I had about $50 at one point, but hadn't hit a board for a while. I entered this hand and was on tilt a bit from being card dead. When he turned his hand, he started counting my chips and taking them and someone said that he had me covered, so that's when I got up. Thinking back to it now, I don't really see how he could've had me covered. I think the last time I made a count, I had about $40. But then again, I was having a lot of trouble keeping track of stack sizes, etc. throughout the game due to my inexperience live.

Good question... probably if he had folded, none of us would've known what had actually happened. Maybe I would've realized later that I jammed for my full stack size and had an "oh crap" moment, but it's hard to play the 'what if' game. If he hadn't said he had AJ right away after I told him I made a mistake, I would've just let him have the pot uncontested minus the $20, like I had said.

I agree. In my head at the time, the hand was over when he told me his hand. He did start stacking my chips as well.

Id still want to see the cards run out even if I was the other guy. A new game like that with casual players, theres bound to be mistakes like that all the time.

I blame everyone lol. You just took the loss and wanted to get out, the opponent was excited about "winning" a big hand and couldnt wait to sweep the chips when you got up, and none of the other players called out the mistake of the board not being run out.

Keep track of your chips ALWAYS! dont listen to anyone else. Keep track of the game as well..

When you have a bunch of people like that playing, it can get hectic. Its really up to the players to pay attention to whats going on to keep the integrity of the game.

This is all very confusing. Part of the problem is you're spending so much time talking about your emotions that it makes it hard to get to the details of the hand, which is all that matters since you asked about it.

First of all, why on earth would any other player touch your chips to begin with? That is just idiotic, not to mention illegal. So that's the first problem. Why you let him I suppose has to do with your emotional state. But for crying out loud, what a mess this hand is.

It was dumb to leave your cards face down. Most home games I know of have a rule that once all in, cards must be tabled before the board runout can continue. That would have solved this problem.

As played, the only thing I can figure is that you basically abandoned your hand and left your cards face down and left the table for some strange reason. Technically no one can turn over your cards but you. Technically once you leave the table with a live hand, your hand is dead.

If you had any grounds for arguing this hand, it would be about the other player touching your chips. But when you let that slide, I don't see what you could do here. However, since this is a friendly home game, what the other player did is incredibly douchey and very poor etiquette, which all started by actually cheating by taking your chips. What kind of dealer would let that slide?