in general, i avoid home games that are raked... because i'm not sure what i'm paying for... at the casino, i'm paying for security, i know i'm not going to get robbed while at the tables for the most part... at a home game, no such guarantees... especially since the stakes are higher than a typical home game... there could easily be 20k on the table and on the people together...

so this home game is probably 25min away... casino is probably 55min away... both have dealers and both rake up to $5... what would you guys do?

$5-10 Raked only $5? Where did you hear about the game? Is your connection to the game solid?

I'd do it. I'd bring a couple of buy-ins and check it out.

In a game this high I would probably want some type of security seeing as it would be a nice target for a robbery.

I'm not sure I'll be willing to call this a "home game" with that $5 per pot rake.

This and this.

If they're raking $5 a hand, it's a business, not a home game. There's a LOT of money on the table, and I expect a good chunk of that rake to be spent on quality security. I'm guessing it's not.

If the casino charges the same rake and the 5/10 runs consistently, I'm probably driving the extra 30 minutes for the peace of mind (and potentially larger player pool).

Oh, sure- our pearls of wisdom aren't goot enuff for you to steal, as your own??

I insist on a certain level of quality in the posts I steal.

I'd take the Casino myself. They may be "protected" and "legally ignored" locally, but I wouldn't want to lodge a protest over some incident to a Teddy KGB type if that's the kind of room it is.

A casino that only rakes $5 on a 5/10 game? Play that!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I'd probably not be comfortable in the home game, but another consideration may be the quality of players in the games and your goals. If your goal is to make as much money as possible (which I assume it is), which game are you more likely to beat on a consistent basis? If it's the casino, you have no problem, play there. If it's the home game, then you have to weigh the additional profit against the additional risk and make a decision.

My guess, the casino is the way to go.

KC

Is the amount of money to be won at the "home" game greater than the game selection opportunities and security at the casino game?

What's worth more to you? I'm pretty carefree, so as long as the game were filled with enough incompetent people, I might attend the "home" game.

wp, sir- wp.....

A "home game" that's 5/10 with only a 5 rake? I'd choose that one.

what kind of rake do you guys face for 5/10?

In Texas I would say 12 max is typical.

5% to a max of $20.

$20 a pot? butt rape itt

action game.

yes, the action of the runner laughing all the way to the bank.

$20 max pots.

Gamble for only $400 an hour. Oh yeah. Way +EV. Very sustainable. But hey, at least it's divided equally among everyone at the table. Real cheap now. /sarcasm

Can't really decide based on structure and rake alone. But this sounds like a good deal.

If I felt safe in the game, had the bankroll, and the field was soft, I'd play. But then, I've played regular games in some seedy areas, so maybe I'm not a good judge.

Not sure where you get your "$400/hr" number from. I said it was 5% up to $20 max. We have plenty of smaller pots that don't generate the full rake. And when you're playing 5/10 and higher even $20 can be justified when the pots are $1000+. Anyways, it's a good game and a lot of fun the times I've played in it. The host provides lots of goodies like food, alcohol, massage girls, credit (if needed), pro level dealers and equipment and a safe environment.

For an underground game, security and amenities are a lot more expensive, but it's worth it for loyal soft regulars. Sounds like this guy is doing it right. That's what I'd do if I had the means and player base. Ah, to dream...

The money that is going into the pockets of the runners didn't grow on the tree out back. Nothing like illegal tax-free income that can't even be traced from the moment the dealer reaches into the pot to take it, making quick change, going back and forth between pot, felt, tray 6 times in 2 seconds, so you don't know if he made change for that 5 or returned 1 or 2 or none. 5% up to $20 max. Figure 30 hands per hour, $10 per hand average rake. If you think that's high, then consider that the rest of these figures do not include ANY tipping. That's $300/hr. Divided by 8 players on average (sometimes 7, sometimes 9). That's $37.50/hr. In a 5/10 game, you play 100 hands in 3.33 hours, and your share of the rake is $125 per 100 hands. This equals 12.5 big blinds per 100 hands, or 6.25BB/100. So once you overcome that, you have broken even. It is extremely rare to have a post-rake BB/100 of more than 1 or 2 after 100,000 hands (long-haul), so at best you could make 8.25BB/100, of which 6.25BB/100 goes to the house. And for each person at the table who is pulling in 8.25BB/100, there is another person at the table (I am simplifying) who is contributing 8.25BB/100.

You as a solid player make 8.25BB/100, which is $49.50 per hour.
The house takes: 6.25BB/100, which is $37.50 per hour.
Your net profit: 2BB/100, which is $40/100, which is $12 per hour.
The losing player loses $49.50 per hour to subsidize your $12 per hour.

This is unsustainable for very long, and assumes never-ending supply of fish and nobody being better than you and the fish never adjusting and the sharks never honing their attack on you, although some of that is incorporated in the fact that your long term rate just won't go above 1 or 2 tops after rake because people know your style in the long run and have incorporated adjustments for the most part, even the fish.

You cannot expect to win in this kind of game any more than you can expect to win when you buy a scratch-off. It is always a negative EV proposition, but it is theoretically possible to be a long-term winner (if you just run good for life or quit while you're ahead).

The house is laughing all the way to the safe (notice I didn't say bank). They are being paid handsomely for taking the risk of serious criminal charges and jail time.

Any rake makes it difficult to win. $20 rake per pot makes it impossible.

[ ] $20 rake is a good deal in a normal game

That's exactly right.

Depends on the game. I do agree it's high, but if this is an established game operating like this, then it's not your concern whether it's sustainable. Whales don't really care about bankrolls or winrates. They care about gambling and amenities.

Outside of that, I'm curious what's covered by this rake. Are massages free? Are dealers toked? Are drink/food servers expected to be toked? If all of this is included, then this rate becomes more and more reasonable. In a casino you can expect to pay $20-25/hr in rake and tips, plus another $1-3 for drinks. Massages are generally $120/hr. Food will cost at least $15.

But yeah, the house is being handsomely compensated for shouldering an enormous risk while sharing its network of whales for your benefit. Guess what? Real casinos ALSO make more than you do at the poker table.

That's an excellent analysis and I agree with it. If I was a regular grinder at that game I would be in trouble. But I'm not a regular grinder there. I show up about twice a month and I'm willing to take my chances that I'll come out ahead, and enough ahead that it's worthwhile to keep coming back.