Hi I'm a new user. Please forgive me if I have posted this in the wrong place.

I'm an intermediate player, but for the life of me can't work out what I should have done in this hand. Would appreciate some comments.

Cheers, from DownUnder! ...

This was a live home game amongst mostly strangers:

Blinds are 25c/50c.
I am in the cutoff with AQo. The game is 8 handed.

UG + 1 (drunk player who has lost a lot of money on the night) opens to $6. (stack = $50). UG +2 calls, he usually raises his strong cards pre-flop (stack = $50). The hijack calls the $6 (very fishy player) (stack = 200). I squeeze to $25 in the cutoff with my AQo (stack = 150). The BB calls the $25. The original raises calls. UG + 2 folds. The hijack calls the $25.

Clearly I did not expect to be against 3 other players. The pot is $106.25.

The flop comes down K 8 5 rainbow.

The BB checks. UT + 1 checks. The hijack bets $17.

Having no idea what to do in this spot, I bet against the donk bet, thinking it is an extremely weak stab at a large pot. I did not want to give up such a large pot for such a little. I re-raise to $40.00.

BB folds. UT + 1 folds.

The hijack thinks for a little while then calls the $23.00.

Pot = $186.25.

The turn comes a 2.

The hijack checks to me. I shove for $85.00.

He calls, and shows 5 2 to make bottom two pair. I’m drawing dead.

Can I have an evaluation of what I might have done wrong? Is this just fishy play on my behalf? Or is this just a very bad player I'm up against?

Thanks

OxPolit

This shouldbe moved to the No limit forum. This is LIMIT

As for the hand, well, how about both answers for the win? Your squeze is way to small,a nd against way to many players. You likely are going to be up against a few players, because you really aren't giving a lot of incentive to fold to anyone. So really, it's just not going to convince peopleto move off there hand.

Once you get ot the flop... you can call the $17. If you want to continue in the hand, but under no circumstances should you raise to $40. You just critizcized this player for making a weak stab at the pot, so you just barely go over a min-raise to try to scare him away? I think if you really think it's a light stab then you should be shoving flop here, because you have the most leverage.

As for turn, just check. you stack is too small to get him to fold anything really, especially since you said he isn't the best. Just check and see a free river. The HJ now has a chance to call 86 to win 186+86 so he is getting basically 3.5:1. he just can't make a lot o mistakes by calling here, especially by how weakly you ahve played the hand.

I trace Hero's problem to a failure to understand the nature of the Villains he is playing with. A $0.25/$0.50 game seems likely to be a true home game - not an underground game. It will be filled with hyper-loose, sticky, low level thinking villains. Hero should assume as much until he has some solid read that tells him otherwise.

The preflop squeeze seems reasonable, though I have to wonder if $6 is the table norm or an unusual opening bet. Often an extra big bet-sizing means something about the strength of the hand. Hero is going to be priced into a puke-call if the opener pushes for $50.

I find that donk bets generally mean exactly what they seem to mean in a low stakes home game. Here Villain bets 1/6th pot with bottom pair, no kicker. I expect the same villain would bet somewhat larger with top pair/good kicker or two pair+. Villain is only looking at his hand, seeing a weak made hand and betting accordingly. Note that Hero can "Rep" all he wants and it will not matter vs this type of VIllain - he isn't even wondering what Hero might have had to make it $25-to-go preflop.

The problem is that the Villain is also sticky. Hero might find this villain would even call a flop push with bottom pair. Bluffing for the rest of the 400BB stack might work, but Hero will need to win a big fraction of the time to justify the risk. Low stakes home games vs strangers is not a good enviroment for big bluffs, or really much of any bluff.

I think villain did Hero a favor by donking out. Hero should know ace high is not the best hand. Maybe Hero can make the call for $17 and hope to spike a pair, but I wouldn't. Hero has six outs to a pair and they are all dirty. AQo was best preflop but now its a loser - muck it and move on.

I think Hero's strategy in this game should be ABC poker, never bluff and value bet light with no fancy plays. He can make adjustments once he gets a few hours into the game.

DrStrange

Came here to say all of this, and the good Doctor beat me to it.

It's nice to see that you're not keeping all your quality strat posts exclusively to CT.

Recently I've been struggling somewhat against donk bets and here's what I've found to be true in the home games and 1/2 casino games. Every player has a donk bet range. Some players will donk bet with bottom pair just because they don't know how else to play it. Some will donk bet as a total bluff. Some will only do it with strong hands.

As others have said, this is a case of knowing your opponent's tendencies. In this case, he is obviously clueless and likely won't fold to any bet once he has a pair. Against a player like this, just fold on the flop and silently thank him for saving you the trouble and expense of c-betting.

I'd probly flat preflop before squeezing but its OK to raise there. Maybe a little bigger too, but sounds like no one folds so it doesnt matter. Once he donks for 1/6th OTF I'd shove before I minraised or called. fold>shove>>>>>>>>>>call>minraise in terms of actions. Playing two more streets with less than a pot sized bet behind and A high sucks.

In these kinds of games, I fold preflop. The only hand likely to give you action that you beat is KQ, and only if you hit the two-outer. It's an unprofitable spot in this type of game, unless you can shove to isolate a loose smallish stacked opener.

1. Sorry, pfap; there's no way I fold pre-flop.
2. I'm inclined to call pre-flop, since we have position on most of the players.
3. Since OP squeezed, you have to raise to more than $25. You're giving the original raiser good odds to call; each subsequent player has even greater odds to call.
4. Personally, I fold to the donk bet.
5. Since OP didn't fold, I agree with badhabit. If we are going to proceed with this hand, we must shove to at least give off the impression that you have a big hand.

When a player will call 50 BB's preflop with 2-5 offsuit, even considering folding A-Q is criminal.

Scratching my head over this one. How is AQ ahead of KQ on a K-high flop? Or do you mean preflop? In which case why are we worried about hitting a two-outer if we're ahead? Lastly, A-Q has three outs to beat K-Q on a K-high flop, not two.

Could not disagree with you more.

Brunson hates AQ, so I'm not alone here. But I realize my opinion is not the majority. And that's cool. Just sharing it.

This is a new group for OP. You have to imagine that not everybody at the table is a mouth-breather. They have a long history with each other. They ALSO know this guy will call 50 BBs preflop with 2-5 offsuit.

Sorry, I didn't mean this specific case. I mean that's one of the only hands that will make this hand profitable in general. I suppose maybe a lower pair who thinks that you're bluffing with AK.

How do we know we're ahead if we whiff the flop?

Outs that give action. KQ might go all the way on a Q93 board, but not an A93 board. You also have to factor in the times you make a c-bet on a K93 board and get check-raised. After all, you're reppin' AK or better, right?

Well, then you go ahead and play AQo multi-way against unknown opponents, and let me know how it works out. Me, I'll use it to isolate a known spewy opponent and play for a very low SPR, if not AIPF.

The crazier the game, the tighter the profitable play. AQo is not a monster by any stretch of the imagination, especially not after multiple people have shown interest in a pot, and super especially not against unknown opponents. It's a trap hand.

If it's profitable in this spot, I say only marginally so. It's very high variance.

I don't think Brunson plays many .25/.50 home games these days, though.

The fact that a new player got three callers with a 50bb preflop 3-bet says a lot to me about this game. Mainly that it's a pretty typical .25/.50 home game.

Level?

AQ can be a dangerous hand against good players, I agree. But in loose home games as well as casino 1/2NL, it is incredibly profitable. Sure, I've lost pots against AK or when Ax caught his kicker. But I've won a lot more against fish who see flops with any Ax and can't let go of top pair. Saying that KQ is the only losing hand that will give you action is far from correct in my experience.

Higher variance doesn't mean lower profitability. Maybe short-term, but by folding AQ preflop you're leaving a ton of money on the table in a loose game. Remember, against players who are playing ATC, we widen our range to be more profitable. We don't shrink it.

I'm old fashioned. When they're loose, I'm tight. When they're tight, I'm loose. Against unknowns, I'm not getting out of line with AQo. Against this loose of a game, I'm waiting for a better spot with more control. AQ is a tricky hand, and I'd rather know more about my opponents before pushing it hard.

I think folding pre in position is crazypants. Squeeze/size is debatable cause there are two players left to act with only 2x your bet. Be hard to fold after you squeeze with pot odds and the possibility of HJ calling light, so better be intending to get it all in multiway.