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Old 07-13-2017, 09:59 PM   #1
AK59
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 215
First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Hi, I am trying to host an 18-player (two tables) tournament next week. All experienced casual players. I'd like the tournament to last approx 5 hours. Kindly opine on the structure below

* Buy in: $50 gets 2,000 chips
* Rebuy for 1st two levels: $50 gets 2,000 chips
* Optional add-on at end of level 2: $50 gets 3,000 chips
* Top 4 paid: 50%; 35%; 15%; 10%
* Merge tables when 10 players remain
* Chips: 5/25/100/500/1,000
* Levels (30 minutes each)
1: 5/10
2: 10/20
<end of rebuy, add-on, color up 5>
3: 25/50
4: 50/100
5: 100/200
<color up 25>
6: 200/400
7: 300/600
8: 500/ 1,000
9: 1,000/ 2,000
10: 2,000/ 4,000

Thanks
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:58 AM   #2
leebert
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 243
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK59 View Post
Hi, I am trying to host an 18-player (two tables) tournament next week. All experienced casual players. I'd like the tournament to last approx 5 hours. Kindly opine on the structure below

* Buy in: $50 gets 2,000 chips
* Rebuy for 1st two levels: $50 gets 2,000 chips
* Optional add-on at end of level 2: $50 gets 3,000 chips
* Top 4 paid: 50%; 35%; 15%; 10%
* Merge tables when 10 players remain
* Chips: 5/25/100/500/1,000
* Levels (30 minutes each)
1: 5/10
2: 10/20
<end of rebuy, add-on, color up 5>
3: 25/50
4: 50/100
5: 100/200
<color up 25>
6: 200/400
7: 300/600
8: 500/ 1,000
9: 1,000/ 2,000
10: 2,000/ 4,000

Thanks
I'm far from the most experienced person on here, but just on a basic glance, I think this thing is going to last WAY longer than 5 hours, unless you're running really short blind intervals. Assuming I bust on the last hand of the rebuy period, I can (I assume) double buy-in which gives me 4k chips, 2k x 2 buy ins and then add-on for another 3k chips, so I'll start the next level with 7k Chips. Blinds are going to be 25/50 which means I'll still have 140 BBs in my stack to play with. That's probably more than some people start their home tournaments with.

Add to that at the beginning you're going to be (if people double buy, which I'm assuming some will) 400 BBs deep. At that kind of level, it's going to be pretty damned hard for people to bust without having some insane coolers a la Vanessa Selbst vs quad 7s at this year's WSOP Main.

If you're going to start at 5/10 and allow people to double buy I would have starting stacks around 1000.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:25 PM   #3
AK59
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Posts: 215
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Just to clarify, there is no double buy in. Also, each level is 30 mins. Do you still feel this lasts more than 5 hrs? I want to start 200BB deep- hopefully this reduces the rebuys.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:14 AM   #4
leebert
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Posts: 243
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

If your goal is to limit the number of rebuys, why not simply do a re-entry tournament and allow people to re-enter until the end of level 4 once if they bust? Then you can scrap the add-on. That should leave less chips on the table than with a bunch of people double buying etc...

With 30 minute levels and that structure I still think you're looking a little longer, but who knows, every tournament is a little bit different. Perhaps go with 20 minute levels after the re-entry period and hope that encourages movement.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:49 PM   #5
sw_emigre
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Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Yep way longer than 5 hours. Very way longer. Start at 10/25 (easiest with your chips in play). 100BB start is plenty for a home tourney. Tourneys aren't supposed to play like a 100BB cash game. (FYI: Outside of WSOP ME and a few big buy in tourneys, very few play deep after the first couple levels. Most casino donkaments have much faster structures than what you have You want to think about getting people to shove sized stacks around hour 3-4. Cuz they won't be shoving at 15BB like they should. There are prob "chips in play/blind structure" equations on the internet; for you I'd guestimate 20 total rebuys, factoring in the addons.)

Levels 20 min. 30 is easier to work with, but in that case, you should eliminate a heck of a lot of levels. But when that happens, the shock of a new level is too much. So stick with 20 min imo.

Merge tables at 9, so you can play 2 tables of 5 handed. Will speed it up a wee bit, also adds a different dynamic for a few hands.

I've come around to using an add-on. Used to hate it, but what it does do is prevent absurd all ins from shorties who would rather bust and rebuy. So I like that aspect. Buy every rebuy and add on will add time to the game. Maybe add a rule that only 1 rebuy is allowed, how I run it.

I often deal when we're down to 6 or so, assuming I've long since busted out. I can deal much faster than my punters. But once itm, I stop dealing for them. They will quickly get bored with the slow pace of dealing themselves, and agree to a chop. I can't emphasize enough how valuable this will be. (I always use the 2nd table to hold a cash game and I want to jump in that too, for fun and profit, since we're all drunk by that point. And no matter how excited you are at the beginning, by hour 4 and watching 3 people shuffle, deal, limp shove fold fold, now do it again, any sane person will want to be done with it.)

Have fun! I always buy (w tourney buy ins) a booby prize for first bust out/rebuy. "Tournament donkey" card protectors are perfect here, as is anything with a fish on it (or depending on where you live, have some take-out sushi available). A 3 dollar poker book from a yard sale, anything like that. I'm also better than many of my guests, well OK all of them, and I bring a bounty prize that I put on my own head, like cookies I made or something. You can recruit 2-3 of the better players to do this too.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:14 AM   #6
AK59
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 215
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Thank you. Few ideas. Let me know what you think

1. Start with 150BB instead of 200BB
2. Rebuys for 1st 5 bustouts only. Capped at 1 rebuy per player
3. Add on available once and ONLY when merging tables (so other table can start cash)
4. Love the idea of a 1st bust out prize
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:24 AM   #7
AK59
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 215
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Hi, so I thought a bit more about the structure. Here's where I am at the moment. Would appreciate some feedback please

* 18-player, 2-table tourney
* Target duration: 5 hrs
* Merge tables when 9 players remain
* Buy in: 3,000 chips
* Rebuy (1st two levels only): 3,000 chips
* Max 1 rebuy per player
* No double rebuys
* Optional add-on post table merge (at level up): 4,000 chips
* Top 4 paid: 50%; 35%; 15%; 10%
* Chips: 10/25/100/500/1,000
* Levels (30 minutes each)
1: 10/25
2: 25/50/ 10 ante
<end of rebuy, color up 10>
3: 50/100
4: 100/200/ 25 ante
<color up 25>
5: 200/400
6: 200/500/ 100 ante
7: 500/ 1,000/ 100 ante
8: 1,000/ 2,000
9: 2,000/ 4,000
10: 3,000/ 6,000
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:44 PM   #8
leebert
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 243
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK59 View Post
Hi, so I thought a bit more about the structure. Here's where I am at the moment. Would appreciate some feedback please

* 18-player, 2-table tourney
* Target duration: 5 hrs
* Merge tables when 9 players remain
* Buy in: 3,000 chips
* Rebuy (1st two levels only): 3,000 chips
* Max 1 rebuy per player
* No double rebuys
* Optional add-on post table merge (at level up): 4,000 chips
* Top 4 paid: 50%; 35%; 15%; 10%
* Chips: 10/25/100/500/1,000
* Levels (30 minutes each)
1: 10/25
2: 25/50/ 10 ante
<end of rebuy, color up 10>
3: 50/100
4: 100/200/ 25 ante
<color up 25>
5: 200/400
6: 200/500/ 100 ante
7: 500/ 1,000/ 100 ante
8: 1,000/ 2,000
9: 2,000/ 4,000
10: 3,000/ 6,000
You kind of seem hell bent on sneaking in that one extra denomination of chip, that I would say you don't particularly need. This structure does look better though and you're probably going to keep it around 4.5 - 5 hours with this structure IMO.

A couple of things though. I don't really like introducing antes and then taking them away and bringing them back repeatedly, this is happening because of your extra chip denoms I think. Also, level 6 to 7 is a pretty massive jump and I think that's where your tournament is going to really kick it up a notch into turbo shootout mode, that may be what you want, but some of your players may complain about how quick that is.

Why not do something like 5K starting stacks, with 5k Re-entry and a 5k add-on.

25/50
50/100
100/200
150/300
Break Rebuys End. Colour out the 25s.
300/600 Ante 100
500/1000 Ante 100
800/1600 Ante 100
1000/2000 Ante 200
2000/4000 Ante 200
3000/6000 Ante 200
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:57 AM   #9
sw_emigre
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: inside when I should be outside
Posts: 1,000
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK59 View Post
* Merge tables when 9 players remain

* Rebuy (1st two levels only): 3,000 chips
* Max 1 rebuy per player

* Optional add-on post table merge (at level up): 4,000 chips
These are good changes. I like the add on only for FT, but idk how popular it will be. Rebuy 2 levels if 30 min I guess, 3 if 20 min levels. Limiting rebuys to first 5 bustouts is a disaster, rewards all-in donkeys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebert View Post
You kind of seem hell bent on sneaking in that one extra denomination of chip, that I would say you don't particularly need.

A couple of things though. I don't really like introducing antes and then taking them away and bringing them back repeatedly, this is happening because of your extra chip denoms I think. Also, level 6 to 7 is a pretty massive jump and I think that's where your tournament is going to really kick it up a notch into turbo shootout mode, that may be what you want, but some of your players may complain about how quick that is.

Why not do something like 5K starting stacks, with 5k Re-entry and a 5k add-on.

25/50
50/100
100/200
150/300
Break Rebuys End. Colour out the 25s.
300/600 Ante 100
500/1000 Ante 100
800/1600 Ante 100
1000/2000 Ante 200
2000/4000 Ante 200
3000/6000 Ante 200
This here is all good advice. Antes are a disaster, and this chip structure is much more common. OP, there are honestly a ton of threads in Home Poker answering both antes and structure questions, so I'm not going to cover it much more. I tried antes once, it was horrible. (I've hosted maybe a dozen MTTs.)

And I'd make payouts like Stars 18-man tourneys: 40/30/20/10. The goal of a home tourney is to make everyone happy with the game, and a few a bit happier cuz they doubled their money or so. Flat structures make this happen much better than top-heavy prize distribution.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:12 AM   #10
JZ44
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Why not just plug your requirements into blind vallet and let it spit out a structure for you?

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Old 07-19-2017, 11:14 AM   #11
DarkMagus
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,069
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

Having your lowest denominations 10 and 25 is going to be a pain in the ass when you need to make change, like 15 chips or whatever. Each denomination should always be a multiple of your smallest denomination.

Also I think for casual players, super deep stacks are kind of annoying. I would rather start at 100bb (especially since it's a rebuy), but have smoother blind increases. I like leebert's structure.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:05 PM   #12
d0nkSTRIKER
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Posts: 77
Re: First Time Host | Tournament Structure Help

+1 for blind valet if you aren't sure. If anything it makes for a perfect starting point.
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