The Game
First, I am a professional poker player, not a casual player. I have been playing poker at a local Card Club for about 1.5 years now. The game is typically 2-5 or 5-10 NL, and I will typically buy in for 1-1.5k initially but have many nights where I could be a 3k+ loser (or winner). The Club is absolutely the class of card clubs in our area, The owner has made it very successful, it is very secure, great amenities, it is well run, and the action is typically very good. Obviously for this you pay a high rake (but no higher than other card clubs in the area), about $25 in a capped hand + $1 for a bad beat jack pot.

Some Background
In that year an a half I have become friends with the owner and the other players. The owner has bought pieces of me in bigger live events and also recently recommended me over a couple of other players to a backer who was looking to back a player full time in live events. We hang out at live events when we are there for an extended period of time, get dinner together, etc. I certainly considered him my friend.

The Incident
Recently I have not been playing much live poker as I have been playing online in Canada. So I have only been to this club once in the past 2 months. I was home this week because SCOOP had ended and a friend and I figured we would go play in the Tuesday game, the biggest game that is spread at the club. We decided beforehand that we would stay if the game looked good and leave if it looked bad. I sent a text to the owner asking when we should arrive to get a seat, he told me an earlier time than he was telling others, I guess as a favor to me. When we arrived the game was absolutely horrible, basically every nit and solid player you could think of was there, with no action players sitting. When the owner arrived and asked if I wanted chips, I said no, I don’t think I will play. I considered this just good game selection. Also, my friend and I leaving was not going to break the game or keep it from getting started; plenty of people were on the way, many of them action players that others would rather have sit. As an aside, another player in the game called his friend to try to warn him and save him the gas from coming to the game, so we were not alone in our analysis of how good the game was shaping up to be. The owner proceeds to go on a bit of a tirade in front of everyone about lack of respect, that anyone who leaves will never get another text indicating different start times for good games, and says he can’t wait to get my WSOP backing taken away when he tells my backer (who agrees with me in this case), and that he is going to teach a lesson today.

To put this incident in perspective, in 1.5 years I have showed up at his place 3 times and decided I would not sit and play in the game because it looked bad. In those 1.5 years I have played at his Club 86 times for 612 hours, many times starting the game and being one of the lasts ones there at 8AM the next morning.


After I left I was kind of baffled at the situation, the owner and I had never had a cross word, and my friend totally agreed that it was not my obligation to put up my money in a game I didn’t feel was profitable to play in.

I proceeded to call the owner a couple of days later hoping to clear the air, hoping hot heads had cooled and we could have a real conversation about what happened. Essentially his feeling boiled down to him feeling that I had “slapped him in the face” in front of his other players and showed great disrespect in leaving his game before it started because I didn’t like his “product” even though he had sent me a text giving me the earlier start time. He finally said he would prefer if I didn’t come to the game anymore, as I was not the type of person he wants there.

On to Ethics…
So what are the ethics in this situation, and the ethics of game selecting at a local card club in general? Should I feel like I am not allowed to pick the games I play in? Does the owner have a point? And thoughts on him banning me? I have many thoughts about this but would rather hear other opinions first and not let my views steer the conversation. Thanks for any input!

Cliffs
-Play at a local card club for 1.5 years, have played 86 times for 612 hours, have left due to bad game 3 times in that period
-Friends with owner and other players, owner has been always been supportive of me and my poker career
-I decide not to sit in a very nitty/tough game and owner decides to ban me from his club for this
-Would like to hear thoughts on ethics of game selection at a card club

$25 per hand rake? Wow.

It is capped at that in big pots, I forget the exact % they do up to that point, but in most of the games I play the rake gets capped quite often. Obviously this is a major reason not to sit in a nitty/tough game as the rake is almost impossible to beat long term

The answer is that it is a private club. You have a right not to play. He has a right to not let you in.

You understand your position. It would probably help to have the owner's perspective. The owner wants to have a game running when the active players arrive, because if they have to wait, they may leave for somewhere else. His expectation is that the regulars understand that they may have to play under less than ideal conditions until the active players arrive. Years ago, Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese would play high stakes HU until other players saw the game was running and came over. Doyle called it, "opening the store." Neither player expected to make much of anything, but understood that unless someone opened the game, it would never get started. The old time players knew that you had to give action to get action.

So while you went in expecting that the owner was doing you another favor, the reality was that he was asking for a favor. Your friendship was such you weren't willing to do him this one favor, after he's backed you, found backers for you, bought dinner, etc. From his perspective, your friendship ended the second it was going to cost you anything. Not much of a wonder why he's decided you aren't much of a friend.

@ Venice- Not sure if you read my post or just the cliffs, but in it I said there have been many times when I have started games, and also that in this particular instance there was no danger of the game not starting/breaking if my friend and I left.

The owner probably overreacted a bit, but in fairness, to him it probably seemed like you were snubbing the personal invitation and accommodation he made for you.

In retrospect it might have been a good idea to just sit and play for an hour or two, try to avoid getting coolered by the solid players, and head out when the game(s) are going strong and it wouldn't have felt rude.

Ah yes, the old "86 then 86" policy.

I did see that. He might not be a great friend either. But there is no ethics involved in this at all. You made a business decision. He made a business decision. If in retrospect it was a bad business decision for you to get banned from this game, you'll have to grovel and apologize. Otherwise, go find another game to play in.

first off if you think you are a pro you are not as you dont even have a clear understanding of what the rake is in your game. better get some rounding out in poker if you want to succeed. i am being harsh but true.

as to being jumped on by the owner he is not your friend. so come to the realization he is just another card room owner that thinks all the players belong to him.

however in general if you asked ahead of time for a seat you should probably have taken it and played for a while anyway.

This.

The problem, of course, is that with $25 rake, you really can't afford to play with the decent players while you wait for the fish.

I agree that any pro should know what the rake is exactly, but I do not agree that not knowing makes one not a pro. Everyone has leaks, pro or not.

that is true. 25 puts you in a tough position of playing or not.
still you have to do some pr work if you are a winner in a place. unless it is a big casino.

alex. not knowing what the rake is means the player isnt aware of so many other things as well. being a pro means alot more than trying to play for a living. it means you conduct yourself like a professional and know what you are doing at all times.
the rate of rake at a high rake game is so important to know.

You play there 1-2 times a week.
Then you are basically AWOL for a couple of months.
Then you call ahead to get a good seat.
Then, when the game does not meet your expectations and you do not want to "tread water" until the whales show up, you tell the host/owner you are leaving. How public was this "I'm not going to play in this lousy game" ?

Yeah, he probably overreacted. Yeah, he probably shouldn't have invited all the sharks over early to start the game.

But remember the Golden Rule.