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07-29-2012, 09:46 AM
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#1
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SI, NY
Posts: 11,261
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Ethics of Exposed Hand
Not really much of a question here, just curious what other people would do.
$.25-$.50 home game, rotation NLHE/PLOmaha Hi. Full table, plays deep, most people are in the game for $100-$200.
This is H's game at H's house. H is one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life when it comes to poker. Very respectful, good person who always does the right thing. H deals the entire game for nothing (and plays) ..... no tips, no rake.
H is in the dealer's seat, I'm in the 10.
PLO hand, some preflop action (raised pot), some flop action, turn gets checked through. Board is 8225Qr.
H pots the river, something like $33. Folded around to me, I hold double suited KQ92. My cards are clearly visible, live, and action has been on me for about 10 seconds when H holds his hand up to expose it. Table clearlys see that H has A752. I inform H that I havent acted yet and have seen his hand.
Now, I see that I am winning, but would have been on the fence about calling had I not seen this. My hand is not all that strong in this spot; I lose to plenty, and H's most likely hands given the turn action are actually Q2xx or QQxx.
I elect to tell H that I was borerline on making the call, and to be a gentleman, he can keep his bet, I get the pot.
Discuss.
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07-29-2012, 10:14 AM
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#2
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veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 2,437
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
That is quite gentlemanly; I would most likely have shrug-called. Everyone makes mistakes at the table, and I wouldn't expect to be allowed to pull a bet back in this situation.
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07-29-2012, 10:23 AM
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#3
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SI, NY
Posts: 11,261
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
I'm taking into account how gentlemanly this kid is for running the game for free when I do this, this actually means a ton to me given how many sleazeballs in the NY area run "home games" that are actually mini-casinos.
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07-29-2012, 10:45 AM
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#4
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jupiter
Posts: 3,818
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Its a friendly thing to do, hats off to you. I wouldn t do it because the guy is running the game for free, I would do because he is a decent guy who puts alot of effort into his home game.
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07-29-2012, 10:47 AM
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#5
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Home Poker Pimp
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: HP in da HOOWWSSS! (NW of Philly)
Posts: 19,605
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb
I'm taking into account how gentlemanly this kid is for running the game for free when I do this, this actually means a ton to me given how many sleazeballs in the NY area run "home games" that are actually mini-casinos.
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It's a smart meta-play. The question will be- what happens if that situation arises, with a player you don't like?
besides, I don't see how you are on the fence about calling here in the first place, given the play on the turn (without knowing all of the action, of course).
Is there a reason you were thinking of a fold with top-bottom FH? you really thinking 55 or QQ?
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07-29-2012, 11:21 AM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: e^πi=-1
Posts: 5,751
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
pretty generous. Reading the setup, I was thinking the question was going to be "raise, or only call?" I suppose if you were really 50/50 on fold vs call, it would be logical to give him half the bet back.
hats off to you for keeping a friendly game friendly. Sounds like a good one.
I always heard that the 1 and 10 seats were the dealer's blind spots, but dealing this summer I was surprised HOW true this is. I dealt an entire down to one of my supervisors (his day off) in the 10 seat without noticing who it was. The cards aren't really invisible like that, but the faces can be.
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07-29-2012, 11:38 AM
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#7
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SI, NY
Posts: 11,261
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottery Larry
It's a smart meta-play. The question will be- what happens if that situation arises, with a player you don't like?
besides, I don't see how you are on the fence about calling here in the first place, given the play on the turn (without knowing all of the action, of course).
Is there a reason you were thinking of a fold with top-bottom FH? you really thinking 55 or QQ?
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H is a decent player who would usually not check the turn with 2's full of 5's, nor show up with something completely stupid here like a naked 2, so it's tough to come up with a hand I beat. It's possible he's made Queens full, or decided to get cute with 8s full. I was 75% calling but decided to think about it.
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07-29-2012, 12:28 PM
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#8
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Home Poker Pimp
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: HP in da HOOWWSSS! (NW of Philly)
Posts: 19,605
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb
H is a decent player who would usually not check the turn with 2's full of 5's, nor show up with something completely stupid here like a naked 2, so it's tough to come up with a hand I beat. It's possible he's made Queens full, or decided to get cute with 8s full. I was 75% calling but decided to think about it.
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The hand, as played, does sound a little strange then. I don't know what he was thinking on the turn- monsters under the bed?
Eh, whatever. You'll have to let us know if you get future returns, on this 'investment'.... in karma, if nothing else
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07-29-2012, 09:33 PM
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#9
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veteran
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IBeSheepin
Posts: 2,818
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken
hats off to you for keeping a friendly game friendly. Sounds like a good one.
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This, definitely. It being a friendly home game with a stand up host, I think your move here is absolutely admirable.
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07-30-2012, 11:21 AM
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#10
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I ♥ KITNs
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,943
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
It's a tough call, because it's a nice thing to do and a way to show some appreciation for the host who opens his home and runs the game for you, but it's also contrary to the fundamental idea of poker, which is to profit off your opponent's mistakes. I think as long as it doesn't set a bad precedent, there's nothing wrong with throwing the host a bone as a thank-you for the game he runs.
I've done something similar before. A player still active at the final table of one of my tourneys bought into the cash game. He wanted to continue in the tourney but also wanted to help the cash game get going, and he wasn't able to pay attention to both. He ended up (in the cash game) river-shoving into my nut hand because he wasn't paying attention. I gave him his shove back, kept the pot, and told him to wait for cash play until the tourney was over.
I did this because he was doing me a favor by helping get the cash game started even though the tourney was still running. He later repaid me by taking first in the tourney, then whooping up on me in the cash game afterwards.
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07-30-2012, 08:15 PM
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#11
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veteran
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IBeSheepin
Posts: 2,818
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmendr1ck
He later repaid me by taking first in the tourney, then whooping up on me in the cash game afterwards. 
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This is a solid home game permaban for showing up the host, imo.
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07-30-2012, 09:30 PM
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#12
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centurion
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA - PA
Posts: 194
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
Wow. Definitely thought that this was a call/raise question.. I'm all for etiquette and fairness, but I think letting him pull back the bet is going a little too far. I think the gentlemanly thing to do is to say that you're sorry but you have to call. Being genuinely apologetic, of course. Letting him pull the bet back sets a dangerous precedent. It's great that H runs such a great game for free, and you should by all means do what you can to pay it back to him, but bending the rules in his favor could have very bad future implications.
All imo, of course. When a similar situation happened in one of my games, player A accidentally exposed hand, player B shipped all in, player A called and beat the bluff.
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07-30-2012, 10:48 PM
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#13
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adept
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 858
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Re: Ethics of Exposed Hand
I'm with dug on this one. I call, keep the bet he put out (and the pot) and move along.
I do play with a guy who would probably fold his winner, if it happened to him, but I think that's extreme.
If he shows me a winner... I probably shrug-fold, and make a comment/joke about it. Not my fault he exposed and gave me info. Perhaps it was a 'move' designed to prevent a raise out of guilt?
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