This is a clear rule and doesn't leave any room for interpretation. Any action after the wrong card(s) are put out and it's a dead hand for everyone and money returned.

Absolutely. You should certainly correct these problems if you can.

Section 2, Rule 1: Management reserves the right to make decisions in the spirit of fairness, even if a strict interpretation of the rules may indicate a different ruling.

Nobody's disagreeing with what the stated rule is for killing the hand. Robert's is 100% clear. ...but the big rule right at the top says you do what's fair, even if the rules indicate to do differently. It may be a fairer decision to let the action stand if you and your guests are firm believers in action offered and accepted.



I'm not opposed to refunding people's action. I mean, lets not get silly. I'm just saying that it's not always going to be my decision.

I understand that first rule but lets be serious and not pick nits: Dealing from a wrong deck can produce duplicate cards so management wouldn't rule in favor of it.

We all know what the rule is.


Regardless, I'm still hesitant to refund action offered and accepted. That still doesn't mean that in the overwhelming majority of cases I wouldn't just just that -- rewind the action and refund the money -- but simply that I wouldn't always do so.

The fact that two players in a tournament agreed to an outcome that wasn't in accordance with the rules would be irrelevant to me. The only thing that would make a difference would be if it were somehow beyond the point of correction. But I can't really come up with such a scenario, it seems like someone would either notice while there's still time to undo everything, or it would go unnoticed entirely.

But in this case, I can't even imagine why the player with the AA would even agree to just taking back his chips. He's an overwhelming favorite and he'd prefer a break-even outcome rather than simply re-deal the board from the correct deck, given what you said that it was done just to see what would have happened? Just doesn't make sense. I mean I get it's a friendly game, but why even bother playing if you're going to agree to that?

It comes up sometimes at a 2-deck table with sloppy procedures and a messy table. A dealer/player is part way through the hand and sets the deck down to check his cards, then picks up the wrong stub because it was set right next to him. Then, for example, he deals the turn and there is betting. When he goes to deal the river, someone notices it's the wrong deck, or a duplicate card comes.

Often the error is noted at the end of the hand when all the cards are flipped face-down to be shuffled, but maybe that's your definition of "unnoticed entirely", since it's action offered & accepted at that point.

Oh, I understand all too well how this happens.* I just mean I don't know how it wouldn't be able to be corrected. Meaning if someone realizes that it has happened, I can't think of a way that it would be too late to fix it. If the cards are flipped face-down to be shuffled for the next hand, it wouldn't be too late. So come to think of it, I'm not sure how it would actually go unnoticed (by which I meant no one EVER realizes what happened), since the cards would necessarily be mixed together.

I guess that at worst, in a situation like the OP here, the "winner" (with the wrong deck) had the other player well-covered and no one ever got an accurate count of the "loser's" stack. But I guess you just try to reconstruct as close as possible. Bottom line, the cards from the wrong deck (and any action following) are null and void, regardless of whether the action is offered and accepted.

*A few months ago, early in a tournament, I opened a hand from MP with 8-4 suited. Button (home game, so she is dealing) calls. Flop comes 443. I think I bet and she calls, I'm not certain but it's irrelevant. Turn is an Ace, board is rainbow. I bet, she raises, I push all-in, she tanks for a LONG time, I mean like 5+ minutes, then calls. She shows A-2, drawing to an A or a 5 for a gutshot wheel. River is a harmless 6.

While I'm raking a sizable pot, the cutoff is passing the deck to the next button, and realizes that the river was dealt from the wrong deck (after the lengthy tank). She re-deals from the correct deck, and of course it's a 5.

Haha how could this happen you ask...all of the above plus lots and lots of beer! Thanks for all the replies.

you raise preflop, I call from the blinds. Flop comes A56. I check, you cbet, I raise all-in for 1.2x pot. You call. Turn is K, I fistpump.

but wait... as the turn was coming out, seat #1 says "hey that's the wrong deck!". We look again, and the flop came from the wrong deck, too.

Way too much information about both our hands has been revealed to simply go back and deal the flop from the correct deck. You can't leave the flop from the incorrect deck and deal the turn and river from the correct one, or you could get the A on the river again. Once there's action based on wrong-deck cards, the hand is well and truly ****ed.

Why does any dealer have access to both decks, DURING a hand?

????

super standard, especially if the player A shuffles after dealing, while player B is dealing the next hand. When A finishes the shuffle, he naturally sets the deck between them to be passed to player C for the next hand (or sets it between B and C, which is just as bad).

I play at a game like this, where they also have 2 cut cards floating around. I hated the extra cut card, until I realized you can set it on top of the shuffled deck to make it less of an attractive hazard.

We try to make sure the shuffler hands the deck to the next dealer, so this doesn't happen.

This is exactly why it's best to pass the new deck over, with the cut card on top.

Yes, I get that, but I must not have been clear about what I meant. Like you said, you can't just re-deal the flop or whatever may be the case from the correct deck, but you can still fix it in the sense that you give back everyone's chips and start over.

What I meant by "too late to fix it" was something like the hand playing out, and action taking place on the next hand or something like that. But inherently, I don't see how it would go unnoticed any later than the next hand being dealt, and I still don't see it being too late at that point, other than forgetting bet amounts, stack sizes, etc.

Right. We shuffle behind, so it's normally the player in the cutoff doing the shuffling. Sometimes the deck stays with him until the hand is complete, sometimes it's placed between the cutoff and the dealer, sometimes the cutoff reaches across the dealer and puts it between the dealer and the SB. Just depends, and it rarely causes a problem. The main reason it got mixed up in this case was just that so much time had passed while she was tanking on my all-in.

ah, in that case it's done. I'm not aware of any case where you go back to a previous hand to undo the action. the casino standard is once the first riffle of the next deal starts, or when the button on an automatic shuffler is pressed, whatever happened on the last hand is permanent.


If you're feeling adventurous, switch to a big-blind shuffle. When the dealer finishes the hand, he pushes the pot to the winner, and the cards to the next big blind.

-- the unused deck is never next to the current dealer.
-- there is no "cross" where the new deck must be passed across the dealer. big blind simply sets the deck on his right, ready for the next dealer.
-- wakes the big blind up, so he knows it's his turn to post.
-- the big blind acts last preflop, so has more time to shuffle.
-- big blind plays the hand far less often than the cutoff, so you're less likely to have that situation where the deck never got shuffled.