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Check-raising in a home game Check-raising in a home game

08-07-2015 , 03:53 PM
I mean.. do you people check-raise your grandma in the family home games?
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08-07-2015 , 04:14 PM
I`m mid 50`s and have been check raising for 35 plus years. I do recall hearing about some games that if you check, you give up the right to raise, LOL. To me, check raising is poker
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08-07-2015 , 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wil318466
I mean.. do you people check-raise your grandma in the family home games?
Of course.
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08-07-2015 , 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidNB
I`m mid 50`s and have been check raising for 35 plus years. I do recall hearing about some games that if you check, you give up the right to raise, LOL. To me, check raising is poker

I don't mean all older players disapprove of check raising. Just that in the venn diagram those who do disapprove are in the older age group generally.
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08-07-2015 , 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kzlavy
Of course.
lol
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08-07-2015 , 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wil318466
I mean.. do you people check-raise your grandma in the family home games?
Pretty sure I have check-raised every other member of my family, and I've won huge pots from my grandmother, including for her whole stack.

I play games to win, period. I don't care what the game is or who my opponent is. I will soul-read a toddler in Go Fish.
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08-08-2015 , 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimulacrum
Pretty sure I have check-raised every other member of my family, and I've won huge pots from my grandmother, including for her whole stack.

I play games to win, period. I don't care what the game is or who my opponent is. I will soul-read a toddler in Go Fish.
If she's the big stack, we understand.

Other than that though..
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08-09-2015 , 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wil318466
If she's the big stack, we understand.

Other than that though..
Please don't say "we understand" as if you're speaking for everyone.

If check raising is allowed and not frowned upon, then if someone chose not to checkraise a family member who happened to be in the same game, then that would be softplaying, which, is WAY worse than checkraising.
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08-09-2015 , 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by eneely
I don't mean all older players disapprove of check raising. Just that in the venn diagram those who do disapprove are in the older age group generally.
That makes sense as these funny rules were usually from the Pre Moneymaker era
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08-11-2015 , 01:29 PM
I play in a low limit high-low dealers choice game with some much older folks and they have a no check raising rule. The idea of such a rule irked me but in practice its not a big deal. The "rule" that annoys me a little more is that raising heads up is strongly discouraged. But it's a good game and it was easy to adjust to both of these.

This reminds me that I've occasionally seen signs in casinos stating that "check and raise is permitted", which to me implies that it wasn't in some games, at some place and time.
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08-11-2015 , 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by h0trod
I play in a low limit high-low dealers choice game with some much older folks and they have a no check raising rule. The idea of such a rule irked me but in practice its not a big deal. The "rule" that annoys me a little more is that raising heads up is strongly discouraged. But it's a good game and it was easy to adjust to both of these.
I wouldn't mind the rule against check-raising so much. It's a strict rule, clearly stated. I don't love it, but that's the culture of the game, and it sounds like a soft enough game that no check-raising would be a small strategy adjustment and a worthwhile sacrifice.

"Strongly discouraged" raising while heads-up would bug the hell out of me, though. Either make it a rule or don't. It just reeks of whiny gamblers who don't like being raised and always want an excuse to complain that the game isn't "friendly enough."

Of course, those types of gamblers are basically piles of free money waiting to be yours, so I'd go along with it too. But still, grrrr.
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08-12-2015 , 08:54 AM
I am actually a bit suprised that there are still games where check raising is not allowed. There can't be very many of that "really old school" players left actively playing poker. It would not ruin a game for me either , unless they had some other archaic rules as well.
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08-12-2015 , 12:45 PM
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"Strongly discouraged" raising while heads-up would bug the hell out of me, though.
Not me, I'd play 2 sessions and then ignore the "not a rule" rule.
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08-12-2015 , 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoTroy
Not me, I'd play 2 sessions and then ignore the "not a rule" rule.
Even at the risk of making yourself unwelcome in a room full of money piñatas? Sounds EV– to me.
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08-12-2015 , 11:21 PM
To me it is a natural part of the strategy. Even in a home game the fundamental goal is to get the other players' chips.
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08-13-2015 , 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by eneely
The etiquette of check raising is, I suppose, still an issue with some people, but it seems extremely outdated to me. If a particular game has a rule that check raising is not allowed, that is fine, but it's not the sort of game I'd be interested in playing in. And we have an extremely friendly game, with people who have played together for many years.
Lol
The reason people don't like check raising is because they want to see the flop for cheap. They are fish who like to gamble and want to see if they hit their gutshot or what ever draw they are in. I would agree that a check raise is a huge sign of strength but people in home games don't like to fold. I play less hands then they do. Why should i be handicapped because they are too lazy to pick up a poker book or do their home work and learn the game.

i usually do well in my buddys home game Tho. and i would be pissed if he told me i couldn't check raise. Anyone else's game i would probably not go back unless i was killing it there.

Anyone that says wash the deck! Switch the deck! Don't Check raise! and a few other things like that are always fish. Or if they wear sunglasses at home games. They always are fish too. And some then again sometimes you have to realize that home games the rules always get bent.

One home game everyone likes to talk out loud about what they think the player has even if they are not in the hand. It drives me crazy. but i try not to say anything as i want to keep going there.
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08-13-2015 , 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by the village idiot1
The reason people don't like check raising is because they want to see the flop for cheap.
That's probably true of some people who don't want to play in a game with check/raising.

I should make it clear I think check/raising is part of the game. I sometimes check/raise myself. I have no objection to check raising.

The people I have known who have objected to check/raising belong to one of two groups:
Those in Group 1 believe check/raising is a form of cheating. (And no amount of logic will convince them otherwise).
Those in Group 2 believe those who check/raise are taking advantage of them. (And they're probably often correct).

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people in home games don't like to fold.
It's fun to see the flop... more fun than folding.

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I play less hands then they do. Why should i be handicapped because they are too lazy to pick up a poker book or do their home work and learn the game.
You have an advantage when you are selective in your choice of hands to play (when you play tightly). It's not a handicap.

I don't see a direct connection between playing tight and check/raising.

Buzz
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08-13-2015 , 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by the village idiot1
Lol Why should i be handicapped because they are too lazy to pick up a poker book or do their home work and learn the game.
If players of this sort were to "pick up a poker book or do their home work and learn the game," it would be a much bigger handicap to you than erasing check-raising from your playbook.

Superstitious people, "friendly game" players, and stubborn old-timers are among the softest, ripest fruit in the poker forest, and they represent an overwhelming portion of the players who object to check-raising. If they ever "learn the game" or even get a realistic sense of how large the skill element is, you will have lost a massive advantage.

Most of the time, you'd be missing out on a windfall by avoiding their games. Your call, though.
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08-13-2015 , 09:07 AM
No one has yet posted that they support a ban on check raising have they? I am not shocked that folks on this forum are in almost total general agreement that it should be allowed. However, If a game was "good" enough and didn't allow check raising , I would simply drop it from my style and keep on collecting the chips.

No derail intended , but the last thing I want is for folks in my game to overcome their misconceptions and superstitions about poker. "I called cause 7s have been running hot tonight" and other such blather.
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08-14-2015 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I mean.. do you people check-raise your grandma in the family home games?
I played in a friendly poker game way, way back, which, incidentally, included the soon-to-be-famous-on-rec.games.poker Barbara Yoon / Larry Hill.

One player was check-raised by a guy named Bill and shouted out (with real emotion), "Bill, you are no gentleman!" She was an 85 year old Russian emigre named Val. So that's who objects to check-raising. Old Russian ladies.

RA
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08-15-2015 , 08:55 AM
Guessing there is a high correlation between folks that get offended by check-raising and folks that say I call your 20 and raise you 20.

Same folks tend to massively over-bet open shove if NL.
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08-22-2015 , 11:19 AM
I've never found check raising effective in small stakes friendly games. As for ethics of it? Never considered that. It's a strategy. Not like I'm hitting on your sister.
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10-06-2015 , 08:24 AM
WTF?!?

I check-raise all 3 streets in home games :-/
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10-06-2015 , 07:55 PM
Since this thread got bumped I'll add my 2¢.

It was 40 (!) years ago I first heard about this 'beach of etiquette.' We were a group of college aged guys who had a regular Friday night game. Dealer's choice - mostly 5 card draw and stud with wilder variations as the night went on (pre-hold 'em days) and betting was essentially spread limit (5¢ - 25¢).

We had a couple of new guys join us one night and when they walked in one of them threw an unopened deck of Bicycles on the table and implied that was the way he was assured the game was honest. We shrugged and obliged him as we welcomed new blood into the game and he was a cousin of one of the players.

After a few hands I did the check-raise move and he went ballistic, asking how could we allow such 'bull****!' We didn't know what he was talking about then and I really don't think I've heard anything else about it in the subsequent 40 years until this thread.

TLDR: Odd poker rules die as frequently as old wives tales.
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