I have been playing in a home game for last few months, when a friend introduced me to the group. Recently, I noticed that the said friend is setting cards at his deal to win "coolers" (home game between friends, no one worries about cutting deck etc). I'd say I am 99% sure he is setting the deck.

I could ask a couple of other regular players to observe and make their own conclusion, which would lead to him getting outed quickly. Or I could ask him quietly to mend his ways. Or I could just loudly ask everyone to cut the deck amd essentially force the issue. Any other ideas how can I make him regret his decision to cheat in a friendly game (and het him to return the illicit gains)? I don't care if he gets humilated among his friends.

Any thoughts?

Here we go again is my first thought. Check the Movado Thread. Scroll down the thread list about a dozen lines. It got about 17K views and a scad of comments.

Likely, if he is that good a friend, I would confront him privately first and hope you are correct that he is setting the deck when he shuffles. If he is simply a poker buddy then I would ask for some back up from a couple of the regs ( your 1st option) and let them take whatever action is warranted.

inform the host that he's a cheater. ask the host to tell everyone else. end your friendship with him and never play at the same table as him again.

Be sure, very sure before proceeding.

If you have a phone with such capability, surreptitiously record him setting the deck. Quietly raise the issue with the host and show him the video.

Most cheats will stop cheating as soon as they know they're made, and they'll deny it up and down no matter how many people saw it. But they can't argue with video, and the recording will allow you to prove it to others aside from just the host.

As to getting money back, there's probably little to no chance of him having a Hollywood change-of-heart moment and agreeing to refund everyone. He's a cheat, after all, and it's unlikely he even still has the money anyway. It's probably even more money than you think, since he's been with this crew longer than you have.

Without pulling something sneaky on him—like, say, inviting him to a much higher-stakes game and confiscating his buy-in—I don't see your crew ever getting repaid. And a sneaky plan like that could backfire in a variety of ways, so it may not even be a great idea. The best you can probably do is get him out of the game before he steals even more money.

Gotta say, though, it seems really unusual that a cheat would invite a friend to come play with a bunch of marks he's been fleecing.

^^^^ Unless he wants to add to the flock! Sociopath Cheaters don't really have friends. Hope this is all a false alarm BTW

▲▲▲ or we both value the friendship somewhat differently.

I'll just bring it up to the host that someone is cheating and see if he reaches the same conclusion independently

This.

Setting a deck isn't easy. Just make sure that he's actually doing it before you accuse anyone.

If this is true, and I am understanding it correctly. I wouldn't consider this guy a friend.
He is already cheating the game, and he invited you to be part of it? Sounds less like he considers you a friend, and more like he considers you another victim for him to rob.

This. Without hard proof, there will always be lingering doubts. I've played with guys that behind-the-back accused, by guys I trust. They no longer play in the games that I play in.

A pair of cousins were thought to be texting hands to each other during the hand, as well as slouching to see cards by sloppy dealers pitching too high. Despite this, they were also both losers and who knows what justification they gave.

A co-worker of mine was introduced to poker. He really enjoyed playing, and hosts for another group. He can be annoying, and people generally don't like playing with him. He was accused of marking cards with nicks and bends, but I don't put much credence in that, as I didn't notice it, wasn't shown any evidence, had plenty of players rotating through any given week and there are other (he is annoying) reasons for people to make accusations to keep him out. He was an overall winner with lots of variance.

I'd like to know if people are talking about me, and therefore would have preferred confrontation. I do generally go along with the wishes of the group, and they wished just not to play with them. We've also changed venues and groups, so it's not obvious why they no longer play... although I did have to tell annoying guy that he's annoyed too many of the current players to be asked to play in the current game.



This even more.

Explain further on how he is setting the deck?

yea would need more detail as to how you know the deck is being structured.

that being said, if you dont want to go the private and direct route (my first choice) you could always just start requesting to do things to countermeasure his setting the deck up like cutting etc. If people give you grief since it isn't custom just say something like you want to cut your own luck or you read online that suggested doing it even for friendly home games. the point is not only should this counter some of the cheaters efforts, but also give you a read into how he responds telling you how likely it is that he is in fact cheating.

GL OP - let us know how it goes either way

Without very sloppy shuffling and dealing procedures, not cutting the deck, no cut cards, other players too oblivious (drunk, distracted) to pay attention, openly setting a deck is not easy to get away with. We have had this discussion before. Tell us what the situation is like and what he is actually doing. Also does he have an outrageous win rate with "big hands" when he deals.

Setting: I have seen him take the deck (when he is SB) and go through the cards face up, move them around a bit and take the deck under the table. Noone notices if he shuffled or not. On his button, he starts to deal without offering the deck to be cut

Big Hands: Yes, he has gotten quads couple of times in last few sessions. Flusb over flush etc. He has had 20 winning sessions without a break. He us good, I dont think he is THAT good

You have watched this and said nothing?

Who does that? (Not me.)

Call him out immediately or decide to say nothing and live with it. At the end of the night offer him some cash - it's appears he needs it badly and needs the help.

Oh, and if you want to really play poker, find another game - one with folks who know how to play and follow the rules.

OK, Thanks OP, Sound like a rehash of the Movado thread concerning structures and players attitudes. I really don't know how folks let this crap go on. 20 winning sessions is proof of nothing by its self , but is a red flag waving for players to get a clue. Maybe they should cut back a little on the drinks and special smokes and save a little money. Or maybe they just don't mind being marks. IDK.

It's best if three different people shuffle, cut and deal. This game has a procedure where the SB shuffles the deck he is about to deal, and does not have to have it cut. That is a totally awful policy. You need to talk with the host about a better procedure.

As for this player, call him out immediately for turning the deck face up, putting the deck below the table, and failing to shuffle. Do it every time he does any of these things.

You don't have to accuse him of anything. Tell him that it is to protect him, so that it doesn't appear he is cheating.

I don't think this would be a good approach.

Making it harder for him to cheat is not enough. He needs to be exposed and out of the game because he can't be trusted. If he's not able to continue what he's been doing, he'll seek out other ways.

Of course, dealing procedures also need to be improved, clearly, but that's secondary at this point to giving this guy the boot.

Your recording idea was great, and I would pursue that. Until he has solid evidence, I don't want to accuse him. Looking at cards and putting them below the table is not good evidence, in my opinion.

Getting a video of cheating is the priority here. But what would the video show? Cards below the table? You can only tell him to keep them on the table with a video of that.

Let's face it, the world has its lowlifes. That is what good procedures protect against. They also give honest players a sense of security.

When my friends and I play we get the person behind the dealer to cut the cards just in case the dealer knew some Les Murphy chops. There was once a person at our game accused of cheating but I thought it was false, nobody said the name but I think I was being accused of rigging a hand.

I think it had to do with this hand, I was dealing and 2 others (including the owner of the house).

I had 99
Player A had Q8
Player B had Q2

I limped and we saw a flop of QQ9 turn 5 river 9
They came out betting, then a raise, then i re raise all in. Then next week I hear rumblings of someone complaining there was a cheater playing at the home game.

A couple weeks later I told the owner of the house that I hope nobody thought it was me since I dealt a pretty bad cooler to triple up.


But I hope things work out for you. Cheating at home games is not right and should be fair for everyone.

The next time you see the deck not ON the table, say loudly, so you can be heard above the normal commotion " Hey, where's the other deck?" When your buddy responds and pulls them up to show them, make some joke with some laughter/ribbing like "What are ya...setting up a cooler??? hahahhaha" If it happens AGAIN, say "HEY! you whackin off down there? Leave the cards on the table so they don't get sticky!!" Now, EVERYONE is aware, and it seems like ballbusting.

^^ This ( or something like it ) is actually a very good move that you suggested. If somebody IS doing some setting, he knows that he has been spotted. You have not directly accused him of anything and not caused too much disruption to the game. But he is exposed and will likely stop pulling the deck off the table.

Home games I play always use two decks. While a hand is going on, the person to the right of the dealer will shuffle the second deck. When the hand is over, the second deck gets passed to the new dealer for that hand and the dealer from the previous hand is required to cut.

This speeds up the game by having an already shuffled deck ready when a hand starts. It also prevents situations like this because the person who is dealing is always dealing cards that were shuffled by a 2nd person and cut by a 3rd person.