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Old 05-04-2017, 11:26 PM   #1
FartsGalore
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Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Hey everyone... I'm looking for some advice on hosting home games and card selection. I've been using plastic coated paper cards for a while, but have been looking into the plastic ones.

They are quite a bit more expensive, and I'm wondering if they are worth the cost. Do they last longer? Also - what is the general consensus on Bridge (narrow) vs. Jumbo index? Is there a preference for two-hole card games like holdem?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:34 AM   #2
DoTheMath
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FartsGalore View Post
Hey everyone... I'm looking for some advice on hosting home games and card selection. I've been using plastic coated paper cards for a while, but have been looking into the plastic ones.

They are quite a bit more expensive, and I'm wondering if they are worth the cost. Do they last longer? Also - what is the general consensus on Bridge (narrow) vs. Jumbo index? Is there a preference for two-hole card games like holdem?

Thanks in advance!
IME good plastic cards are far more cost-effective than paper over the long run, as long as your players behave well..

"Jumbo Index" doesn't refer to the size of the card. it refers to the size of the character and suit symbols in the corner of the card. Jumbo index is preferred for Hold 'Em because the board can be more easily read from a distance by people with poor eyesight, and because you don't have many down cards. Regular index is preferred for games like bridge because you can hold 13 cards in your hand and still easily read each card's suit and rank. For this reason, some producers tend to produce poker size cards in Jumbo Index and bridge size cards in regular index. However, most places I play Hold 'Em use bridge size cards with a jumbo index.
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:10 AM   #3
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Jumbo vs regular is just a matter of taste/what your players prefer, but I'd def go with plastic cards. They'll last much longer and just feel better imo. I think Copags are the best bang for your buck.
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Old 05-05-2017, 08:38 AM   #4
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

I think it depends on the frequency of your sessions, duration of your session, and of course on the dicipline of the players. Our group meets weekly for 5 -6 hours , uses a 2 deck system and is reasonably carefull. I keep 12 decks and rotate a set of 2 each week. We use plastic Copags and Modianos.

Now paper will work out OK at first, but decks won't last very long if your group is similar to ours. You will constantly need to replace decks at low prices. Plastic coated is an inprovement. Full Plastic is more expensive certainly, but holds up well and will not need replacement very soon usually.

If you are doing short sessions and not very often, then Paper / or plastic coated should be adequate to start out. Good luck.
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:04 AM   #5
FartsGalore
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post
"Jumbo Index" doesn't refer to the size of the card. it refers to the size of the character and suit symbols in the corner of the card. Jumbo index is preferred for Hold 'Em because the board can be more easily read from a distance by people with poor eyesight, and because you don't have many down cards.
Thanks for the clarification DoTheMath, and for everyone's responses. Based on this information I think I definitely want to go with full plastic, and probably Bridge size - Jumbo Index cards.

Does anyone have a recommendation? It seems like there are a lot of options, from Kem, to Copag, to Brybelly, and all points in between!
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:25 AM   #6
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Agreed that jumbo versus regular is a matter of taste. I don't know where "preferred" came from, but it is not my experience that jumbos are preferred, nor is it my experience that most places use them.

You can get two decks of Copags for $15 on Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/Copag-Poker.../dp/B001GQ3VHG

Royals are nice too:
https://smile.amazon.com/2-Decks-Pok.../dp/B016M66NLU

I don't have time to dig into those links but try to get the matted plastic (as opposed to flat). I don't know if anyone still makes completely flat cards, but they tend to stick to each other.
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:34 AM   #7
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Plastic cards are right way to go. Paper cards are cheap, but you get so little play time from a deck that paper cards are no bargain even with a low price point.

My player pool runs a little older than average ( I think ). Large index format works best for my players because they can't see as well as they once did. It has gotten to the point they regular index decks have become objectionable - meaning that I get complaints about "these cards are hard to see" when I bring out regular cards and I end up playing only the large index cards.

The same sort of thing is true if you are playing in a poorly lit gaming area. Even though the players are young enough to have good eye sight, they will benefit from the larger index cards when the lighting is weak. This happens more than you might think - bars and pubs generally have dim lighting as do a lot of garages.

I host roughly once a week now and have a lot of experience with different card vendors. I rotate decks every session so it is unpredictable when a specific deck is going to come into the game. Not that I have ever had a problem with cheating or people gaining an advantage of a nicked up card being readable from the back. but why take chances? There are at least three dozen different decks in the poker room right now.

There are distinct difference between plastic card vendors. The decks can be stiffer or they can be thicker or thinner. The thinnest decks can be a little cheaper, but those decks start getting a curl in the cards that I think quickly becomes unacceptable.

Another problem some vendors have is the marking on the cards gradually wears off. You can mitigate this type of damage by cleaning your table often - the dirt and dust act like a fine sandpaper on the faces of the cards.

Some of the well known brands are not as good as you might expect from their reputation - Copag, Kem, Modiano, Dal Negro, Mint, Da Vinci, Guild, and Gemaco cards. They are either too thin, too thick, attract and retain dirt/grime, are easily damaged, prematurely fade, or are prone to warping.

I have had set ups from all of these vendors. They were certainly adequate even if their playing life was shorter than desired. Some of these cards come with a premium price - - - adding insult to injury, paying extra for cards than are going to last a shorter period of time.

My preferred cards come from two vendors, Piatnik and Desjgn. Perhaps these vendors aren't as well known, but their products are clearly better. However it can be hard to find these cards in the desired format.

Piatnik offers a lot of "pretty bridge" styles of decks that might not be what I would select for my poker game. My last order of Piatnik cards had to be shipped from Europe, which took months (but was well worth the wait ) Piatnik is based in Europe and it seems like that is the market they are most interested in.

Desjgn is a small domestic card vendor. Sometimes it can be hard to find these cards in stock, or if in stock perhaps not in the color / format desired. At the moment, Desjgn is running a kick-starter for bridge sized, large index offering (link below). The kick-starter price ranges from $15/setup for a single set up to less than $10/setup in quantity. This is a huge bargain as these cards often cost $18 to $20 per set up. They are worth the $20 price - I have more of these cards than any other. But why pay $20 when you can pay $15 or less?

I also have a soft place in my heart for a plucky small business trying to break into an established market. Made in the USA, small businessman offering a better quality product at a competitive price point. The kick-starter offer closes late in May, but you can find these cards after that at various on-line retail outlets.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...lassic-baroque

Bottom line for me - - - don't cheap out on your cards. Players might not notice good cards, but they will certainly notice bad cards. And after they get "trained" on good cards, they really notice problems with bad cards.

DrStrange
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:22 PM   #8
FartsGalore
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrange View Post
Plastic cards are right way to go. Paper cards are cheap, but you get so little play time from a deck that paper cards are no bargain even with a low price point.

My player pool runs a little older than average ( I think ). Large index format works best for my players because they can't see as well as they once did. It has gotten to the point they regular index decks have become objectionable - meaning that I get complaints about "these cards are hard to see" when I bring out regular cards and I end up playing only the large index cards.

The same sort of thing is true if you are playing in a poorly lit gaming area. Even though the players are young enough to have good eye sight, they will benefit from the larger index cards when the lighting is weak. This happens more than you might think - bars and pubs generally have dim lighting as do a lot of garages.

I host roughly once a week now and have a lot of experience with different card vendors. I rotate decks every session so it is unpredictable when a specific deck is going to come into the game. Not that I have ever had a problem with cheating or people gaining an advantage of a nicked up card being readable from the back. but why take chances? There are at least three dozen different decks in the poker room right now.

There are distinct difference between plastic card vendors. The decks can be stiffer or they can be thicker or thinner. The thinnest decks can be a little cheaper, but those decks start getting a curl in the cards that I think quickly becomes unacceptable.

Another problem some vendors have is the marking on the cards gradually wears off. You can mitigate this type of damage by cleaning your table often - the dirt and dust act like a fine sandpaper on the faces of the cards.

Some of the well known brands are not as good as you might expect from their reputation - Copag, Kem, Modiano, Dal Negro, Mint, Da Vinci, Guild, and Gemaco cards. They are either too thin, too thick, attract and retain dirt/grime, are easily damaged, prematurely fade, or are prone to warping.

I have had set ups from all of these vendors. They were certainly adequate even if their playing life was shorter than desired. Some of these cards come with a premium price - - - adding insult to injury, paying extra for cards than are going to last a shorter period of time.

My preferred cards come from two vendors, Piatnik and Desjgn. Perhaps these vendors aren't as well known, but their products are clearly better. However it can be hard to find these cards in the desired format.

Piatnik offers a lot of "pretty bridge" styles of decks that might not be what I would select for my poker game. My last order of Piatnik cards had to be shipped from Europe, which took months (but was well worth the wait ) Piatnik is based in Europe and it seems like that is the market they are most interested in.

Desjgn is a small domestic card vendor. Sometimes it can be hard to find these cards in stock, or if in stock perhaps not in the color / format desired. At the moment, Desjgn is running a kick-starter for bridge sized, large index offering (link below). The kick-starter price ranges from $15/setup for a single set up to less than $10/setup in quantity. This is a huge bargain as these cards often cost $18 to $20 per set up. They are worth the $20 price - I have more of these cards than any other. But why pay $20 when you can pay $15 or less?

I also have a soft place in my heart for a plucky small business trying to break into an established market. Made in the USA, small businessman offering a better quality product at a competitive price point. The kick-starter offer closes late in May, but you can find these cards after that at various on-line retail outlets.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...lassic-baroque

Bottom line for me - - - don't cheap out on your cards. Players might not notice good cards, but they will certainly notice bad cards. And after they get "trained" on good cards, they really notice problems with bad cards.

DrStrange
Wow! Thank you for the detailed response. This certainly gives me a lot to think about.

And thank you for the link to the Desjgn Kickstarter... that Bridge size / Jumbo index is exactly what I'm looking for, and those designs are pretty snappy!!
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:52 PM   #9
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

OP Why are you going with bridge size vs poker size?
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:26 PM   #10
DrStrange
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Bridge sized are a little more manageable for people to handle. Poker sized are easier to see. I like poker sized a little better but my players generally prefer bridge sized. Keep in mind we are a self dealt game and every has to shuffle and deal the cards multiple times a session.

Large index vs regular index is far more important to me relative to poker vs bridge sized cards.
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:17 PM   #11
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Bridge size is better for games like Omaha. For Holdem, either is fine.

You can get large index in bridge size, but people may not like how much they have to fan their hole cards to see the indexes, especially when you have four or more cards in the hole.

Consider a card with an index size in between. Larger than regular, but not as large as the jumbo. They work really well, in my experience.

Jumbo may be required if you have an oval table and some players don't have good vision, or if the lighting is not very good.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:27 AM   #12
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

IMO it also depends on how how your players can shuffle if you have a dealer rotation.

We have played with used casino decks and they are decent but only last a couple games.

The casino decks are also more susceptible to being marked and edged. We have dealt with cards being marked and the edges being folded before and its annoying. Someone usually calls it out when its noticed and the deck goes in the trash right away. We have dealt with hustlers before...

My favorite is the Bicycle Prestige deck. Im biased with Bicycle decks. They are plastic. The plastic resists edging really well so they dont get deformed and bent up and its harder to mark the edges. They can shuffle very fast. Bicycle also offers about 3 million types of decks! lol

The only complaint from others about these plastic cards is that they can be slippery compared to casino decks when they are shuffled. Some people will shuffle and half the deck will spring out and land on the floor. Its just because they are used to the other decks that also dont have the "snap" that plastics have.

Good thing about casino decks is that they are very cheap You can get them for like $1 a pack so it is handy to have a few of them stashed away. The Prestige decks can be found in local stores but the tricky part is getting both a blue and red deck. Stick to the internet for availability
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Old 05-06-2017, 04:31 PM   #13
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

I'm currently using poker sized Copag cards with a mix of small index and jumbo index. The small index has pretty much been discarded, players tend to not like the small numbers, especially anyone not wearing their glasses.

I'm replacing them all with the Desjgn cards from the kickstarter link. I've ordered 50 decks so far but am probably going to order a few more.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:34 PM   #14
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Some casinos (my local at least) give away old decks that they have punched a hole in. We went this route for about a year until I bought copags.
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Old 05-07-2017, 06:25 PM   #15
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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I'm currently using poker sized Copag cards with a mix of small index and jumbo index. The small index has pretty much been discarded, players tend to not like the small numbers, especially anyone not wearing their glasses.

I'm replacing them all with the Desjgn cards from the kickstarter link. I've ordered 50 decks so far but am probably going to order a few more.
Desjgn cards have the best feel and look of any cards I've played with. They are my standard.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:48 AM   #16
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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Originally Posted by sw_emigre View Post
OP Why are you going with bridge size vs poker size?
I host a self-dealt game, and most of my players prefer how bridge cards "handle" over the poker sized variant. The smaller size just seems to shuffle easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
Consider a card with an index size in between. Larger than regular, but not as large as the jumbo. They work really well, in my experience.
I found the Gemaco Superflex Monte cards have a unique "super" index that is larger than small, but not as wide as standard "jumbo" index. I kinda like these...



Quote:
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Desjgn cards have the best feel and look of any cards I've played with. They are my standard.
I pledged for the 5-setup option on the Kickstarter. Excited to give the DESjGN cards a try!!
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:50 PM   #17
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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I pledged for the 5-setup option on the Kickstarter. Excited to give the DESjGN cards a try!!
Very good! i think you're going to love them.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:35 PM   #18
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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Very good! i think you're going to love them.
If the kickstarter makes its goal. Looking at KS, his last couple haven't.

That being said, I finally broke down and ordered a set-up from Etsy. I'm going to give them a go at my game next week.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:47 AM   #19
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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If the kickstarter makes its goal. Looking at KS, his last couple haven't.
That's a good point. He seems stalled at around 76% of his goal with only 17 days to go.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:56 AM   #20
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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That's a good point. He seems stalled at around 76% of his goal with only 17 days to go.
I noticed that too... kind of a bummer.

I just received one of his bridge decks that I got off his eBay store with normal sized index -- just to see how they feel and give them a test run. I really like the feel, but definitely would prefer the larger index.

Hoping this Kickstarter thing happens. But it's looking like he'll need about 20-25 more pledges to make it. Not sure that's feasible with the time left. :/
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:17 PM   #21
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

There is a huge quality difference between some of his styles of cards. But I can never remember what is what for sure. I should have included that in an earlier post.

I think it is the Victorian that I have bought in that past. The Culture were a bit slippery and not as nice. I've never played with the Flourish.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:38 PM   #22
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

So I ordered mine from the Etsy store on Tuesday, and I have them in my hands today. I ordered the Classic Culture, and I can see where eneely would say they're a bit slippery. However, they don't seem any more so than a standard set-up of DaVinci, which are my usual go to card. I'm just not as married to them anymore since I lost my connection (one of my players used to work for them, so I could get free set-ups). If nothing else, I can see where these will be easier for pitching as they'll slide better. We'll see how they play next week.
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Old 05-14-2017, 05:54 PM   #23
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

Have you run into players with who prefer standard index to jumbo index because "with jumbo index you have to lift the cards too much to see the whole index"? If so, do you consider this a reasonable objection to jumbo index?

Jumbo index are often considered advantageous for people with poor eyesight. Does the risk mentioned above make jumbo index advantageous for cheaters with good eyesight?
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:00 AM   #24
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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Have you run into players with who prefer standard index to jumbo index because "with jumbo index you have to lift the cards too much to see the whole index"? If so, do you consider this a reasonable objection to jumbo index?

Jumbo index are often considered advantageous for people with poor eyesight. Does the risk mentioned above make jumbo index advantageous for cheaters with good eyesight?
The main objections I've heard are in the opposite direction with people wanting jumbo index. However, in many cases, this is because it's what they're used to seeing. I also heard this gripe more when I was TDing bar tournaments than I do in my game. Given that we play multi-card games a lot (PLO and SOHE especially), my players prefer bridge size, which is almost always standard index.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:22 PM   #25
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Re: Cards for Hosting - Paper or Plastic Cards? Bridge or Jumbo index?

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Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post
Have you run into players with who prefer standard index to jumbo index because "with jumbo index you have to lift the cards too much to see the whole index"? If so, do you consider this a reasonable objection to jumbo index?

Jumbo index are often considered advantageous for people with poor eyesight. Does the risk mentioned above make jumbo index advantageous for cheaters with good eyesight?
I got a set of Gemaco bridge/jumbo cards into play at my game this weekend, and everyone loved them. I'm not sure I'd use "poor eyesight" as the reason they got so much love (my crew is late 30s- mid 40s), but in a self-dealt game (which is what I host), seeing a flop at the opposite end of an 8' long poker table, under crummy lights, and three beers in, can be challenging. :P We don't have a dedicated dealer, so cards rarely end up perfectly centered on the table like they do at the casino; players just deal them right in front of themselves.

The jumbo was nice... No one had to yell out the card values/suits, no one had to ask, "hey - what card is that??", and everyone was able to focus a little more on their game. While one guy did nitpick a bit about having to raise his cards a little higher, his complaints were outweighed by the benefit of clearly discerning the flop from across the table.

I'll be sticking with bridge/jumbo from here on out!
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