Looking for thoughts on how to handle this situation from my game last night.

I host a game that spreads a 10-game mix that can get fairly deep for the stakes. (NL and PL games play .50/1 and limit games are spread limit of 2-5 on small streets and 2-10 on large streets). Last night, we had $4600 in play.

I had quite a few of the new $100 bills in the bank. I keep it in my pocket with the $20's on the outside, then the $100's, the $50's down to the $1's. I don't rake the game, but, we have a dedicated dealer who works for tips. He is the last person that I cash out for the night right after all the players leave.

We had a few people bust out, a couple people cash out before we finished, and finally ended the game after playing 4 handed for about 45 minutes. After cashing out the remaining players I went to pay the dealer and was $100 short on the bank. The dealer's tips where right on point of where he usually is.

I can only think of a couple things that must have happened:

• I gave out the wrong amount of chips on a rebuy. We had a couple rebuys of $300 and one for $800 with some others mixed in.
• Those new $100's can sometimes stick together and I gave someone an extra $100 by mistake.

I sent an email right after the game asking everyone to please check their payout amounts. I've heard back from all but one guy (and I don't think he checks his email regularly so I don't think he's dodging the question) and everyone is claiming they got the right amount.

This is a group of mostly all regulars and all of them are people that I trust. So, not knowing where the bank was off or what happened I'm at a loss on what to do. I can chalk it up to my mistake somehow and eat the loss, but that frustrates me some. One of the players offered to chip $10 or $20 back, but he's the only one and I'd still be down. One of the players suggested taking a small rake over the next game or two to recoup the money but not sure if I'm a fan of that idea. I don't rake for a reason and while I enjoy hosting and the bank is my responsibility it is frustrating that no one is really interested in helping with the problem. I may be over thinking it, or taking it wrong but, I feel I run a good, clean game that people have come to for years and enjoy and the responses along the lines of "that sucks, but my money is good" kinda piss me off. I don't supply a whole lot in terms of food or drink, but, I always have waters, tea, and usually some snacks. Last night, my wife made dessert for everyone.

I've run a bunch of games over the years and this is the second time I've ever been off on the bank. The first time was sloppy bank management when I had a multi-table tournament going on and then cash games broke out later and I was only off like $30.

Any thoughts/suggestions/advice?

If all the players agree, just rake $1 from every pot that sees the flop and has atleast $10 in it. Just make sure everyone agrees. Yea it does suck when the guys don't offer to help cover the loss, I've been there myself.

Our approach is to have a banker who is responsible for the money. If it's off, it is on him. Now, the few times we have been short, and especially if the banker lost money, the winners will usually pitch in for at least part of it. But there is no guarantee.

The point of holding the banker accountable is so he is very careful. If the banker knew he was going to get bailed out, he may be not so focused.

So, you might mention it again at the next game. Let everyone know you never did get it figured out. Hopefully others will pitch in. If not, I'd let it go and figure it was on you, after all, to get it right.

One more thing. Since we have only a few hosts and many more players, we have recently asked someone other than the host to be banker. It was interesting at first. The people who were used to just showing up and playing were somewhat taken aback that, omigosh, they sometimes had to help out! That was an adjustment for some of them, but what could they say? And the hosts appreciate it. They have enough to do, so why should they always be on the line as the banker? You might consider that.

This seems like it would potentially cause more problems to me. When I host a game I feel it's my responsibility to provide a good clean game for everyone and guarantee that the players will get their money. My game, my bank. I have the same expectations at other games (although I would and have chipped if it was off at other places).

I realize I was the bank and it's my responsibility. I am usually very careful and if you took the number of games I've hosted and the times I've been of I probably have a 99% record of being spot on. That's also why I'm frustrated as I feel something happened somewhere as it was exactly $100 off.

I obviously covered the mistake and paid out the $100 from my pocket. I think it's more of the attitude of players that, most of whom are friends, have simply just given the responses that their money is correct so it's not their concern.

Well it does suck I agree, But I always host/bank and I have taken the line that shortages are on me and everyone knows that. I think that motivates me to be carefull. I have been a little short a few times and once $20 (our game plays way smaller than yours). Players have volunteered to help, but I refused and ate it on principle. That's what I said I would do. You have announced it to the group and they did not step up like you hoped. Now you know that it really is on you when you host/bank and all you can really do is eat it and be even more carefull with the bank. You have gotten burned (maybe not even your fault really) , but you have learned how things stand and what you need to do. One silver lining, if you have to get a bit anal about payouts and counts , and somebody gives you some **** , you can always mention the $100 you "donated" to the bank without much support.

I totally understand this. They think, Avaholic's game, his problem. At least other hosts share the responsibility and risk. People who don't host have it great. No matter how close one is with their poker friends, at times it can feel like they are takers.

It was a paradigm change for us, having a rotating banker. But I think everyone came to realize it was more fair. And it encourages the hosts to keep hosting, which is no small thing.

As for expectations of having a clean game, if it is the banker's responsibility to make up any shortages, the game will be clean for everyone else, so expectations met, as far as I'm concerned.

But I can understand if you aren't willing to go there. I was just throwing it out.

I might also add that if you are frequent winner, some of your buddies might think this is part of variance, in some strange way.

I've hosted quite a bit and am always the bank. Over the years I've been off twice, both times short (of course) -- once for $20 and once for $100. The $20 was probably the result of an unintentional mixing of dinner reimbursements (we ordered in) with the bank. The $100 shortage was real, however. I think I know whom I overpaid and I did contact that player, but he told me that he had no idea how much money he brought to the game and didn't count his payout so he had no way to determine whether he was overpaid. He did offer to repay me if I was sure because he trusted me, but I declined because I wasn't quite 100% certain. I'd rather eat the $100 than jeopardize a friendship. Fortunately for me, I was still up for the night even after covering the shortage (and not that it matters, but the person whom I think I overpaid lost that night).

I keep my bank in a banker's pouch with all the bills faced and in order from $1's to $20's. New bills do tend to stick together, so when I get them I like to alternate new and old bills when putting them in the pouch. Recently I've been folding the individual $50's and $100's in half and putting them behind the $20's. I figure that if I have to pay special attention to individually folded bills, I'm less likely to make a counting error. Our bank rarely tops $1.5K and there are seldom more than 3-4 large bills.

I wouldn't feel comfortable asking somebody else to run the bank at a game that I host, but I usually host single-table cash games and prefer to maintain control over the cash myself. I can see possibly doing it differently for a large tournament, but I don't host those.

New bills are notorious for sticking together. My guess is you gave someone 2 $100 bills instead of the 1 you meant to give. (Next time, crumple up any new bills separately. It will help with that problem.)

This. The banker is responsible for any shortages. It sucks for you but hopefully, one of the players will speak up, "Hey I got an extra $100 last game. Here it is." If not, c'est la vie.

abby99............ while most bills are twenties (or less LOL) at our game , your concept of folding 50s and 100s is a great idea! Another good thing to steal from the forum and add to our crew. Thanks!

Sorry, dude, you're going to have to eat this one. This happens in casinos a lot. I get distracted chatting with the cashier, and neither of us notice that I got $700 instead of $600 or something.

The dealer' stokes wouldn't affect the bank. Even if he were stealing from pots, it's still the same number of chips out from the bank.

If everybody is open to it, do a dollar rake. You have a dealer, it'll be easy. But on that night I'd also order a couple of pizzas or bring a nice bottle of something. You're still eating some cost, but that will soften the blow of the sudden rake.

Or just swallow it and accept that these are the risks. Chalk it up to variance.

Eat it.

If the loss is known to your players, they might optionally contribute if their next session is a winning one -- but that's mostly up to your players.

If your group is VERY tight, you could organize a rake (or whatever) for it, but I wouldn't fix my bad accounting by punishing (mostly) people who didn't lose $100 themselves.

I wasn't trying to imply anything about the dealer. Was just bringing up my process as I didn't know the bank was off until the players had been given their money and left and I was cashing him out.

I was at the game - I'd be more than happy to kick in to cover the loss. I think it was just human error.

That game played way bigger than normal (even for us) and there were a lot of green($25) chips floating around; it's possible that you may have given someone both green chips and orange($5) chips at the same time, or that someone may have gotten an extra four greens - lots of stuff could have happened.

You could have cut down a stack of green by 5s instead of 4s and given a player $500 instead of $400 on a buy-in.

But my vote is on sticky $100s. People complained that the new plastic Canadian money is sticky when new, but nothing's as bad as new US bills. The stiff new fabric creates a lot of friction.

Sucks for sure. I'm usually the bank, and the understanding is that I eat shortages (have turned away donations from winners when short) and that I also pocket anything over. Most players play until the end. I cash out everyone on their word, and we leave the chips and cash on the table until the bank is settled. Being off a dollar bothers me. Usually it's $20 from a rebuy, or me mixing pockets.

We were short a hundred recently, it was because I never paid for a rebuy myself


Thinking I knew who got overpaid would bother me a lot. But not to the point of making a scene, just one comment to check (he couldn't) and for sure I'd be more careful the moving forward.


From the players perspective, raking the pots to give you the shortage just doesn't sit right. At least it wouldn't from my perspective if I were a player.


I have asked others to bank on nights I just wasn't feeling 100%. A couple of guys have done so, and maybe it's not a terrible idea to let other shoulder some responsibility. Has to be a guy there for the duration of course.

What is the incentive for anyone to agree to be the "banker"?

It seems the banker has a lot of work to do and can only get screwed, but can never earn.

The incentives are not financial, but social.

1. To encourage the host to continue to host, without hassling with the bank.
2. Because everyone takes a turn, it would unfair to refuse to take a turn oneself.
3. One is pitching in where one can for the support of the game.
4. For the appreciation of one's fellow players.
5. Some people actually enjoy being in charge of the money.

A similar question would be: why would anyone want to host?

I have a consistent process that I use for banking, and I almost never have issues with my bank being off. That said, I was off twice during HPI: $20 on Friday and $40 on Saturday. I chalk it up to the additional confusion of hosting a larger-than-normal event and maintaining two banks on Saturday (one tourney and one cash game). I covered the losses myself in both cases in spite of offers from players to help out. It's my bank and thus my responsibility.

I don't have a big problem taking a contribution from a player who offers freely, but I wouldn't consider raking or asking for contributions.

Raking a previously unraked game sounds like a bad idea. Bring up the fact it was never settled from last time, take donations if people have some, be extra careful next time, and move on.

My best guess is that if $100s are regularly used, someone accidentally shorted a hundo on a buy/rebuy.

My home game bank was off by $20 last home game. I am the only person with access to the bank. Therefore I messed up somewhere during the night, so I just ate the loss. It was only $20 so it wasn't a big deal. However that night was one of my first losing nights in the home game in 10+ sessions and the only time the bank has ever been off in the 8 year history of my home game...

So it stung a little. From now on, I am going to have the player to my left or right double check my chip counts before I pass the chips to the player buying in.

It isn't their concern. If it's your game, and you're the banker, and you're the one handing out the money.... then it is your concern.

And you also have to remember; it's entirely possible that none of the players who've responded have done anything wrong. If you gave someone an extra hundred somehow in their stack, then they would all cash out and expect that amount of money in chips. None of them are keeping track of all of the chips on the table and in your pocket, and realize the number is $100 different.

For all they (or we) know, you could've accidentally given yourself an extra $100 when you re bought, didn't count it, and then lost it to someone else.

I personally wouldn't rake any future games to cover the loss.

Its been said countless times already but as the banker its your responsibility.

I too have been short couple of times, one time the guy said don't worry bout his shortfall but like every one else here, the banker covers the cost.

We play low stakes, but typically have 900-1500 in cash on hand in a night. Smallest chips are 20c in play. I round every one down to the nearest dollar to make cashing out easier. But still I can be couple of bucks off which is highly frustrating and confusing.

When its been a case of $20 + off I chalked it down to cashing out people incorrectly, recently I've caught my self miscounting end of the night due to being tired.

But getting a player to count their chips and then you recount them in front of them. Putting the money out in-front of their chips and then recounting the cash in front of them. really helps minimise the errors.

Count the chips in the rack the player is using to cash out. Count the cash by oaying it on the table, the way a banker or the cage would do. Double-check the chips in the rack. Verify it matches the cash laid out on the table. Don't do it in your head, do it out loud so the player can correct you if you're wrong. It also helps you correct yourself, if your lizard brain picks up that your mouth is saying wrong stuff.

There's a reason they do it this way at the cage, and it's not just for the cameras.

I pretty much usually follow procedures like this.

Initial buy ins are all verified. Players rack up their chips prior to being cashed out. I usually count out the amount to myself then lay it out on the table as I'm recounting in front of them so we can both verify. Which is why I'm leaning towards an extra $100 being given out on a rebuy somewhere by mistake although I don't discount the possibility that a couple of the new hundreds stuck together.