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Any ways to keep the fish having fun?

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06-28-2016 , 07:43 PM

Jordan "The River"

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 63

I play in a weekly home game that I kind of host even though it's not at my place. I bring the chips, cards, etc. No one really knows how to (or cares how to) play well except myself and 1 other player. Basically because of this, the same few players lose every time. I and the other player win almost every single time, and a few win some lose some. Problem is the games are happening less and less often as the guys who get crushed have mostly lost interest. What is there to keep the game fun even when they lose, or even increase variance so the fish won't get crushed so brutally?

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06-28-2016 , 07:45 PM

Jordan "The River"

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 63

I've tried to introduce more gambilly games but everyone seems married to Holdem.

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06-28-2016 , 07:57 PM

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Married to just hold'em, or to specifically no-limit hold'em? It's not the game that gets them crushed so badly, as much as it is the betting structure. Bad players are basically guaranteed to lose at big-bet poker of any kind.

If you could get them to try limit hold'em, it might (a) make the game a little less serious and (b) distribute the money a little less predictably.

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06-28-2016 , 07:58 PM

KCYoung

adept

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 917

Let em win small for a couple of weeks and get em hooked. Then fleece em after that. No one wants to keep playing when they lose every week.

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06-28-2016 , 09:29 PM

sw_emigre

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,671

Are the people in your group interested in learning strategy? When my group started a few years ago, we would occasionally talk after a hand about what we had and how we could've played it. Nothing formal, but it happened 1-2x/night. It doesn't happen as much now that we're all vaguely competent (plus the stakes are higher), and idk how much it helped overall, but prob a little bit.

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06-28-2016 , 09:41 PM

rjbf65

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 54

Most every game I've played in over the years has the pool of strong players and weak players. I think it comes down to having a large player pool to choose from to keep the games going. Sometimes the weak players do change things up and improve over time but a lot of the time they aren't interested in getting better.

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06-29-2016 , 04:08 PM

Grima21

adept

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 723

You need to let the fish go and bring in some new blood. Poker isn't nearly sexy enough at this point to keep fish in a game if they are consistent losers. Plus, it feels a little sleazy to try and keep guys "against their better judgement" in a game just for your own profit.

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06-29-2016 , 10:34 PM

Pony_law

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 242

There is a reason that before the pokerboom no one played no limit. Bad players can't survive over time in big bet games. They only way to keep a no limit game going long term is to either a) constantly have new players coming in or b) run infrequently enough and at stakes that the fish don't mind or care about there long term losses.

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06-30-2016 , 12:11 AM

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Here's an idea: Give them their NLHE, but in the form of a fast-structured tournament with a flattish payout structure. That way, the weak players will have some chance of winning something each game.

I still think that limit poker is the best bet in the long run, though. If you can ever get that idea into their heads and make it stick, it could work wonders for your game. NLHE is just a terrible game for novices—especially in cash format.

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06-30-2016 , 10:42 AM

#10

rjbf65

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimulacrum

I'd say the same is true for PLO.

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06-30-2016 , 01:50 PM

#11

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjbf65

I'd say the same is true for PLO.

For sure, all big-bet games.

Perhaps PLO even more so, since most novices have at least some sense of how to play NLHE, and all that will do is get them into more trouble at PLO.

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06-30-2016 , 02:24 PM

#12

keshaldra

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,090

Seconding the shift to limit poker, if possible. Like tournaments, a lot of people like limit poker because they get more bang for their proverbial buck. The variance from hand to hand is greater (so they win more pots), and there's no chance they can show up, bust, and be broke in the first half hour.

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06-30-2016 , 04:57 PM

#13

Grima21

adept

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 723

If the player pool is below 35, I'm not sure if they even understand what limit poker is.

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06-30-2016 , 05:21 PM

#14

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grima21

If the player pool is below 35, I'm not sure if they even understand what limit poker is.

Hey! I'm under 35 and understand fixed-, spread-, pot-, and no-limit poker. Don't underestimate us youngsters. (Okay, okay, I'm just barely under 35, but shhh.)

Anyway, this just speaks to the importance of introducing people to limit poker whenever opportunities arise, if you care at all about keeping the pastime alive.

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06-30-2016 , 05:33 PM

#15

Chippy McChiperson

stranger

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8

1 word...SoHe

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06-30-2016 , 05:39 PM

#16

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippy McChiperson

1 word...SoHe

Says the SOHE World Champion.

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06-30-2016 , 06:01 PM

#17

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grima21

If the player pool is below 35, I'm not sure if they even understand what limit poker is.

Just tell them it's kinda like No-limit holdem, except it's fun.

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07-01-2016 , 01:46 PM

#18

rjbf65

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 54

I'd say 95% of the people I play poker with started with the Chris Moneymaker poker boom, myself included. No limit holdem was pretty much the only game televised and talked about. Makes sense as to why it has been the game of choice for so long.

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07-01-2016 , 04:19 PM

#19

eneely

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,791

And weaker players like the hope that one huge NL pot will make them a winner.

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07-01-2016 , 05:22 PM

#20

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by eneely

And weaker players like the hope that one huge NL pot will make them a winner.

All they'd need to see is one night of mountainous limit pots to come around about this, especially if the game has a lot of loose players and uses a proper limit chip set (i.e., almost all one denomination).

Limit can make for some really exciting poker, if only people were willing to give it a try.

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07-03-2016 , 11:24 AM

#21

eneely

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,791

Our experience has been smaller pots with little chance of a double. We found pot limit gives us a better balance of action and stack protection but still not ideal for everyone.

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07-03-2016 , 04:06 PM

#22

Jimulacrum

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,670

Well, yeah, in limit you will seldom double up a reasonably sized stack, of course. But in a full (or close) game, you also rarely get walks or hands that get folded out on the flop. Lots more hands go multi-way to showdown and produce at least medium-sized pots, if not large ones. And, since it's limit, you can get to more of those showdowns without ever having to face a massive decision for your whole stake.

I know what you mean, though. A lot of people like NLHE because it lets them hold out hope for a big "jackpot" hand, even if they're the types of players who are likely to be on the donating end of a double-up.

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07-03-2016 , 07:00 PM

#23

Bene Gesserit

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

One of the easier things is to make sure the stakes are high enough to make it interesting but also low enough enough so the weaker players don't get hurt too much each session. You should know by now what these levels are and if you can reduce them somewhat without turning off the stronger players. Weak/Bad players will lose often no matter what games you choose. And they will win often enough too so that they will keep coming back. The size of the wins and losses really matters with most casual home game players.

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