Alex, you never gave me training before my resignation.
Charging for what?
It is illogical, right?

You tell me. When I stopped working?
Do you have a problem communicating with your kids Pocarr.br?
Or perhaps your decisions are based on whatever?

You wanted to charge the MU to a player when you threw him out
and you asked 1K guarantee another player to continue.

All in the same day they threw me without me having breached the contract or something similar.
What do you say about that?

You have a big problem, my friend.

I do not know if you thought you could do what you always wanted, but it is not.
We are not horses, we are people!
And you ruined the life of a person with false advertising, blackmail and lies of their guys Pocarr.br

This. You must be having a giraffe if you think I'm not going to go reading back through multiple pages of complaints just to put them in order for you msusyr24.

Alright guys. I give a proper response and ask for feedback on how the community would improve our model and get "you must be having a giraffe" as a response. You then wonder why we don't respond.

I won't be checking this thread again. Have fun trolling the interweb.

Alex, I need a solution.
I am willing to both parties to present our case to a mediator.

You know I do not understand English well. So you told me to work with Pocarr.br.
Here there must be a moderator to handle both languages (English and Spanish). Or I can hire a translator without problems.

But you made me great harm your feedback. And your team during this time.

So things can not go just like that.
If I lose the case, I have no problems. I'd pay what you pay.
And if you lose, you pay me for damages.

I think it is the most mature and reasonable.
Do you agree?

Regards,
Aldo
ToTiTo.sl
Machala - Ecuador

The community has no financial investment in your company yet you expect people to take substantial time out of our day to give you advise on how to effectively run your business. How about you reply to the posts instead of ignoring people and you might get treated with some respect.

The community simply doesn't like to see people gettin taken advantage of and in some cases blackmailed. You seem to think it's fine tho and that's the problem.

Your the only major staking site that seems to be getting new negative feedback on a constant basis, there's a reason for that!

Was that even 6 hours you waited. you got a response from 1 person before you pouted and left?
are you kidding me?


Fine you want advice how to prove this?
even though your attitude is piss poor and doesn't do anything but reflect badly on your "business" (and how poorly it is run.. clearly)
Improve your preselection/interview process. You really need to examine these potential players for you more on a personal level (100% clear that you are not doing that good of a job).
Getting to know them, there is more to this than just looking at someones profits and graphs.
you have a mindset coach I see and a very reputable one. You need someone with More on the life side of coaching and psychological aspect to take a look and evaluate these players.

willing to bet if you had an extended process during the evaluation period it would to lower your "scams"



But to end on a more serious note, Aren't you supposed to be an ADULT? grow up man and start acting mature and responsible please.

from the contract - leaving early when not in makeup at an agreed upon rate is far toooo vague. you should put some outline of how you calculate that rate in the contract otherwise you could just say "sure you want to leave , that will be a million bucks" then you end up with a disgruntled horse locked in and likely tries to get himself cut by losing as a way to get out.

as for totito.sl claiming to have stuck to the contract - you agreed to send back all money once the staking agreement was terminated as it is a clause in the contract, you haven't done that so you have broken the terms of the contract.

It would appear that part of the problem here is language issues, Pocarr should probably consider that for the non english speaking horses they have the contract translated into the horses native language to ensure that they fully understand the implications of what they are agreeing to.

The thing is, you're a business. The situation described (player leaving soon after joining) is just one of the inevitable risks of doing business. Companies have to eat training costs all the time when staff members just quit or are otherwise unsuitable for the job.

Your point might be a bit stronger if within a couple of weeks you could provide the knowledge for the horse to be earning a lot more money relative to what he was earning in poker beforehand, but in most cases this isn't how it works. A player who stays in a stable for only a month might get a couple of coachings, but just these few hours alone aren't going to transform a guy earning 20k a year into one earning 50k a year (for example). In reality it takes a lot of work on the part of the horse, much self studying, and many hours put in at the tables before the EV of this coaching can be realised. It's not fair at all to say that a couple of coaching sessions entitles you to a big chunk of the EV of 18 months staking.

BTW contracts that forbid the employee to leave unless a penalty is paid are not valid under EU law for certain, and maybe not in other places too. You can't force someone to work for you. Not sure why you'd even want to - there's plenty of motivated hard working players who still struggle to earn a living at this game, nevermind people who have mentally clocked out and no longer care. The EV of 18 months staking a player who hates playing the games is not going to be positive in the majority of cases.

Because the Deal is 50/50 he divided by 2 i believe.

Ahh makes sense, Didn't think abou it at the time
Thanks

2+2: Doncabelero
PokerStars: Doncabelero
Skype: jad.ghizzaoui
Name: Jad Ghizzaoui

Began staking him in January, had a few small issues in the beginning of him playing slightly outside the roll/games not approved for the stake (sub $15 buy-ins), but he admitted the mistakes and we tried to move on. During a recent routine search, discovered he again was playing higher than he was supposed to, this time a considerable amount. Looked at his Sharkscope and discovered this had been happening for some time; brought it to his attention and he said that he'd played those games on his own and would provide an audit shortly. Woke up the next morning to see he had blocked me, my accountant, several members of the stable, and left the Skype group. Apparently after promising an audit he used the remainder of the 'roll in two high-stakes Omaha MTTs.

He has sold packages on here in the past, would obviously not recommend staking him until this is resolved. Currently owes $4800 of MU.

Jeez, looks like I dodged a bullet here. I was discussing staking him in January too for a while and we both kind of got cold feet. From my point of view he would not send any references etc and he blocked me on skype when i asked him.

I wish i had known that he had got a deal with you and I would have messaged you my concerns.

Good luck getting the money back, hope he sees sense and pays back what he is due you.

HesBluffingx ( Daniel Francis) sold package for this years wcoop in marketplace.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...-live-1600464/

He ended up selling atleast 17 % which was worth of 3800 dollars. About two days before series started he lowerd his mu and sent the difference to his investors. I got my 2.46 dollars. When his wcoop pack was about to start he sent the pm for every investor. Copy of pm is below...


Hi,

I have cancelled my SCOOP packages as the required % was not sold.
Ordinarily, refunds would be sent out to investors immediately, however there is an issue which i'll explain below.
Please understand, I have sold numerous packages on 2p2 and have always sent out profits / refunds promptly.

The issue is quite ridiculous, possibly unbelievable, but true.
When reducing the mark-up for my full package, I sent out refunds to current investors for the mark-up difference.
Unfortunately I made a big mistake with one of the mark-up refunds, sending $4992 to one individual instead of $49.92 (with the decimal place).
I'm not sure how exactly I managed to do that, obviously i'm a moron.. not only for the mistake, but because some time did pass before I even realized the error.
I have attempted to contact the person to whom funds were sent, but as of yet have not received a reply.
I will give them some time to respond, before posting the name publicly.

You should know, I am staked for my play on poker stars.
I was asked to sell % in order to play the SCOOP (Mid/High) schedule.

My entire balance consists of stake BR + Investor funds and any transactions at this point must first be confirmed by my backer.

Ultimately, I accept that I am responsible for the funds and will refund investors out of my pocket if needed.

Please give me some time to resolve this issue and implement the appropriate solution.

Thank you.



So now its over two weeks and we have heard nothing of him. According to opr he has played small tourneys on stars from 18.5. His pm seemed quite strange when we got it. And the situtation sure doésnt look any better now. For me he owes 111.54 dollars. And for other investors about 3700 d.

meant this years scoop of course.

This was with regard to player "recochi" on PokerStars.

He has repaid in full.

Thanks! i never had bad intentions i hope my name is clear now and people can thrust in me again! Thanks.

If you want to expand your staking site you Alex and stake 100+ players, you have to stake some people that doesn't necessarily have great references or backing history.

Often, when taking on a new player, you have no idea if they will potentially roll (they probably don't know if they will roll either at the start much of the time). There is no great way to screen against this.

The contracts that Alex and every other backer have made are designed to prevent rollings and to have a fair staking term. Inevitably, horses violate the contracts in many ways and Alex is posting to try to reclaim the money he has lost and prevent these horses from getting staked again in the future.

Yo pienso que esto es un problema mucho más grande.
I think this is a much bigger problem.

Los jugadores no tenemos garantías como trabajadores, nadie nos respalda. Y lo peor, nadie cree en nosotros al defendernos solos.
Players do not have guarantees as workers, nobody supports us. And worse, no one believes in us to defend ourselves.

Esto deja de ser un trabajo: se convierte en un contrato para esclavos!
This is no longer a job: becomes a contract for slaves!
Quieres renunciar, pero prácticamente te extorsionan y amenazan.
You want to scape, but practically they extort and threaten to you.
¿Y qué sucede luego? Te despiden como si nada, y sin razones. Inventando lo que crean conveniente.
And what happens then? You get fired like that, without reason. Inventing what they see fit.
¿Qué recibes a cambio? Más maltrato y una mala experiencia.
What do you get? More abuse and a bad experience.

Luego si quieres defenderte tras lo que ellos hacen, te das cuenta que no puedes hacer nada.
Then if you want to defend yourself after what they do, you realize you can not do nothing
Y tus "dueños", sin pruebas y fundamentos, te convierten en un ladrón ante toda la comunidad de poker.
And your bosses, no evidence and grounds, you become a thief in the entire poker community.
¿Quién vuelve a creer en ti? Nadie.
Who believe in you again? No one.

Y esto es un deporte mental?
And this is a mental sport?
Esto es una alternativa de trabajo?
This is an alternative work?

Hace algunos meses un amigo me dijo: "Los backers se creen los putos amos"
A few months ago a friend told me: "The backers believe themselves masters putos"
Ahora sé que tiene razón. Y, lamentablemente, aquí nadie nos respalda
Now I know he's right. And unfortunately, no one here supports us.

Problemas por los contratos? Sí.
Problems for contracts? Yes.
Pero más grandes son los problemas que generan a nuestras vidas. Al menos a la mía.
But the bigger the problems caused to our lives. At least mine.

En diciembre del año pasado regresaba a Ecuador del BSOP-Sao Paulo. Para estas fechas no sé si vuelva a jugar poker, y definitivamente ya no puedo volver a trabajar como organizador.
In December last year I returned to Ecuador from the BSOP-Sao Paulo. By this time I do not know if return to play poker, and definitely no longer I can go back to work as organizer.

Por qué firmé el contrato? No lo sé. La publicidad y palabrerías fue todo. Ahora lo firmaría sólo por necesidad.
Why I signed the contract? I do not know. Advertising and chatter was all. Now signed only by necessity.

Gracias, Pocarr: Me despidió un día después del día del trabajador, una semana antes de mi cumpleaños, a muy poco de que nazca mi segundo bebé, y unos días después del terremoto en mi país.
Thanks, Pocarr: You fired me the day after Labor Day, a week before my birthday, to less than a month of my second baby born, and a few days after the earthquake in my country.
¿No pudo escoger otra fecha? jajaja
You could not choose another date? hahaha
¿Y por qué no aceptó mi renuncia? Ni siquiera había recibido entrenamiento.
And why not accept my resignation? I haven't even received training (when I present my resignation).

Ahora, ¿qué es lo correcto?
Now, what is right?

I'm sorry

Y por cierto, no quiero dinero. Pero debe haber normas que los bancadores tienen que cumplir.
And by the way, I do not want money. But there must be rules that "backers" have to meet.

Esto es un negocio, un negocio en donde la maquinaria de producción son las personas. Y nadie puede pasar por alto de los derechos universales de éstas personas.
This is a business, a business where production machinery is people. And no one can ignore the universal rights of these people.

Toda persona tiene derecho al trabajo, a la libre elección de su trabajo, a condiciones equitativas y satisfactorias de trabajo y a la protección contra el desempleo.
Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
LA DECLARACIÓN UNIVERSAL DE DERECHOS HUMANOS, Art. 23.
THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, Art. 23.

Y si el póquer no se rige bajo los derechos humanos, entonces tiene bien merecida su ilegalidad e ilegitimidad en mi país, y en muchos otros del mundo.
And if poker is not governed under human rights, then it has earned its illegality and illegitimacy in my country and many others in the world.

La vida y dignidad, no está en juego.
Life and dignity, is not at stake.

Chill out, Braveheart.

Several posters have agreed that some of Pocarr's tactics appear to be over the line (Overusing the word 'thief,' demanding equity payments from horses when they leave contracts, etc), but that doesn't mean the horses who signed the contracts are somehow absolved of all liability. And it certainly doesn't mean they can cash out the remainder of the bankroll (i.e. steal) because they're upset.

Usually contracts do have rules for both horses and backers, if I were a prospective horse I'd want to be fully aware of what I was getting in the deal and what the consequences would be if I didn't live up to my end.

This subforum is to warn others and settle disputes between horses and backers, so I encourage both horses and backers to post complaints if they're unable to reach a resolution with the other party.

ToTiTo - you still should return the bankroll money. I understand you're pissed off with them (quite rightly) but the money still isn't yours.

I mean part of me is thinking 'well if you act like a dick then someone else treats you like a dick in return, then tough ****'. But stealing the bankroll just because you can is still a scummy act. It should be returned.

As grinder4all says you should return the roll ToTiTo. If the roller site stays up after that then it's time to pursue legal counsel for defamation of character.

http://prntscr.com/b8tmb0 (Paytable)
http://prntscr.com/b8tni0
http://prntscr.com/b8trgq
(En los correos que envié a Alex me disculpo y explico la situación. Por su extensión nos los subí. Si alguien desea leerlos, no tengo problema en compartirlos.)
(In the emails sent to Alex I apologize and I explain the situation. If someone wants to read them, I have no problem sharing.)

Propuse un plan de pagos a Alex apenas fui despedido, por mi situación.
I proposed a payment plan Alex just I was fired for my situation.
Pero nunca fue lo que se puso en este hilo. Rodrigo Feres puso palabras en mi boca, y dijo que mentí y jugué el dinero.
But it was never what was put in this thread. Rodrigo Feres put words in my mouth, and said I lied and I played the money.
Una vez que me enteré de su publicación, decidí retener el dinero por completo, aunque estaba en Neteller la mayor parte.
When I learned of the publication, I decided to keep the money completely, I had a small part in stars, and the rest in neteller.
Dije a Alex que lo necesitaba, sobre todo para empezar de nuevo. Me disculpe por el abuso, y fue cuando propuse un plan de pagos...
I told Alex that I needed, especially to start again. I apologize for the abuse, and that was when I proposed a payment plan...

Creo es todo sobre el problema del dinero.
I think it's all about the problem of money.

Ahora, el problema con los contratos?
Now, the problem with the contracts?

Alex, me dijo que no tiene tiempo para un debate entre jugadores y bancadores para solucionar estas irregularidades. Y lo entiendo porque la empresa demanda mucho tiempo.
Alex told me he has no time for a debate between players and backers to solve these irregularities. And I understand because the company time consuming.
Pero no estoy de acuerdo. Debería tener tiempo para esto. Se están vulnerando derechos universales en este negocio. Y si esta comunidad (que es la más grande a nivel mundial respecto al poker) no hace nada, no sé quién más podría hacerlo.
But I do not agree. He should have time for this. Universal rights are being violated in this business. And if this community (which is the largest worldwide about poker) does nothing, I don't know who else could do it.

Yo no quiero dinero (por daños y prejuicios), estoy contento con estar bien con Alex. Perdí mucho por la retroalimentación negativa, pero voy a recuperarme. Sólo anhelo se haga un cambio en beneficio de los jugadores.
I do not want money (for damages), I'm happy to be okay with Alex. I lost a lot by negative feedback, but I'll recover. I only desire a change is made for the benefit of the players.

La vida y dignidad, no está en juego.
Life and dignity, is not at stake.