hello:
My name is Sergio "maestro sp1" in PS. about 1 month ago I had a similar problem with pocarrr. Alex wanted me to pay an entire make up for allegedly had taken money / money spent in tournaments forbidden even knowing that this was false. Alex asked me for a audit of games and 5 days after alex was told that I had stolen money from the bank and I had to pay the full make up, I insisted to them that I never steal nothing that him search on the audit and still kept telling me I had to pay or him going to make a page for me, like they did with friend jaime unfairly . After a time alex wrote me saying they had made a mistake and that the accounts actually were fine and there was no problem with me, him TRIED TO BUY ME WITH 100 $ FOR THE ERROR, I obviously I withdraw immediately from pocarr. Basically the thing with pocarr in several cases that i know and in my experience is this: You're very WINNER or THIS KIND THINGS WILL HAPPEN ALWAYS. My full support to jaime, that page has no raison d'etre and alex does not give solid arguments, I suggest jaime to do a separate post where the whole community can review.

I put the conversation of skype:
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Good luck

[] Rtininnion read the post of chaimito f

This will be my last post responding to anything about chaimito f as the posters in here have zero idea what staking entails and it's a waste of my/our time.

Here is the last person to post having an issue with us (1 of ~4):
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23...issue-1555424/

Here we were unsure what to do, asked what the community thought, and awarded in favor of the player:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23...nions-1577776/

In general with staking:
We are giving people money in countries we have never been to and will never visit. We will never meet these individuals. We have very little recourse if they breach our agreements. For that reason, we are quite strict and very straight forward. Before we send a penny, we are very clear with what we expect and what the consequences will be if you breach what we both agree upon before any money is sent and any games are played.

We ask for makeup and the SBR to be repaid if someone breaches our agreement. The reason for this is to avoid being freerolled. Let me give an extreme example:
Player X gets $10k in makeup
Player X starts using funds to play nothing but off-stake games
Clearly we cannot stake Player X anymore. He isn't technically stealing, but he's breaching our agreement and unstakeable.

Given we all agree we will need to cut Player X, does the community feel he owes us all the makeup or just what he played off stake with? If it's the latter, then the staking industry will die because it's in every backees best interest to break terms when in makeup. Build $50k in makeup, play off stake with $5k, get dropped and repay $5k. This is far too big of a loop hole.

We pay coaches, managers, referees. When it's all said and done, we take home about 35% of the profit a player makes. Our upside if a player works out is 35%. Our downside if a player does not work out is 100%. Couple this with the fact that we are giving literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of our own money to people on the other side of the planet with little recourse and that leads us to having super strict contracts.

We take on all the risk financially and give thousands of hours of our time. So when we have a player who then takes our money and breaches our agreement, no matter how small, we're left with even MORE risk. For 35% upside. Sometimes we choose to continue with a player, sometimes we don't. For whatever reason, 5 months ago when this happened Rob, myself, and the .br managers decided not to continue with Jaime. He admitted to breaching our agreement. We gave him 5 weeks to sort a repayment plan knowing his finances were not in order. He agreed and sent a couple payments and then disappeared. When we asked him why he was 5 weeks late with the last payment he said he could no longer pay. He did told us to put up a site if we had to. He did not try and negotiate a lower payment, he did not ask for 30 more days, he simply told us to put up a site. So now here we are on 2p2 having to defend ourselves.

We have staked over 500 players. ~4 have come on here saying we've been unfair. To you reading this, try and put yourself in our shoes. You give money to 125 members of the poker community to play certain games...how many of them do you think you would have a disagreement with that escalated to getting on 2p2?

The poker community, like any community, is going to have its fair share of difficult people, seedy people, etc. The poker community is slightly more likely than other communities to have bad apples just based on gambling and the possibility of quick money being involved.

In this specific scenario I have already copy/pasted Skype chat of Jaime admitting he breached his agreement to me in PM. Here is a translated version of him speaking with one of our Pocarr.br managers and completely understanding he broke our agreement. He also set up a repayment plan and started repaying and now that he can't repay...here we are having this conversation. Shocker.

[10/25/2015 8:46:41 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): Jaime, you broke your deal with Pocarr playing lots of games that were never part of your stake.
You're playing tournaments like Big $ 55 and other games that it was impossible to think that made part of your stake. Same as not understand English very well, you're the only one of our 130 players who did that, then it will not be possible for a negotiation.
You broke your deal with Pocarr, and that's why we need you to send us the $ 834 you have now and set a payment plan for the $ 3166 you have of makeup to the December 1.
[10/25/2015 8:53:22 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: If I understand d immediately sent the banking that I have
[10/25/2015 8:54:10 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: But pay the whole of the makeup without work is very complicated at that time
[10/25/2015 8:54:33 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): We don't need to pay at once
[10/25/2015 8:54:56 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: If Alexandre I understand
[10/25/2015 8:54:58 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): We need you to make a plane
[10/25/2015 8:55:09 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: but just look at the time I have been in down or even
[10/25/2015 8:56:38 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): well jaime, you have a debt
[10/25/2015 8:56:55 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): that wouldn't happen if I had respected your stakes and your contract
[10/25/2015 8:57:11 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): Alex Carr is a flexible man
[10/25/2015 8:57:11 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: If I know that you have all the right
[10/25/2015 8:57:15 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: I have no excuse
[10/25/2015 8:57:33 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): We're just representing
[10/25/2015 8:57:40 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): send your bankroll back
[10/25/2015 8:57:41 PM] Alexandre Mantovani (xara): acalmate
[10/25/2015 8:57:46 PM] jaime fonseca (chaimito f) Colombia: I know that I played out of my stakes but never steal a single dollar

I will not be commenting on this any further. The site will stay up until repaid.

Player breached contract by playing not one, but more games wich were not on stake with pocarr funds, before blaming pocarr and pointing fingers get your facts straight

Fwiw I actually think Jaime is a good person and wanted to make this right. Re-reading all of our chats he seems like a good person and I'm more upset than usual that this has gotten to this point.

But at the end of the day we run a business and both parties signed a very straight forward contract. One party held up their end and the other did not. We're willing to accept a repayment plan, take down the site, and update this thread accordingly, but we do need to stick to our contracts.

I hear everything you're saying Alex, and I can only imagine the difficulties you face in running an international staking operation, but the bottom line is the xxxisathief websites ought to be reserved for actual thieves. You're not accusing this guy of stealing afaict., so whether you put it in the contract or not it's brutally unfair to put such a site up.

If I'm ignorant of facts and this kid is indeed a confirmed thief, then by all means disregard my criticism.

You also have to consider what a normal person would deem to be reasonable too, and if the resolution is fair and just.

Just to give an extreme example - let's say pocarr changed their contracts to say those that breach the contract for any reason would owe $1 million. Even if the horse agreed to this, no one should actually expect him to pay up based on this clause, since the penalty would be out of all proportion with the offence.

The kind of 'offence' of playing an $11 buyin higher tournament then having to repay 2 and a half grand in makeup would certainly fall into this category too. In business contracts, at least in the UK - these types of penalties are deemed unenforceable in court.

Have a look: http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2...g-two-appeals/

If it's 'lots of games' then by all means, drop him and you're owed MU. If it's 'one' game, which from the evidence looks like an honest mistake, then no. There has to be some level of allowances if a player makes a mistake just like there is in any industry.

It's like if an employee is contracted to work 9:00am-5:00pm, but one day shows up 15 minutes late for work without calling in. That wouldn't be grounds for dismissal and any company that did so is taking a huge risk of having to pay out an unfair dismissal lawsuit.

Now, if the guy is consistently 15 minutes late to work, and ignores warnings about his behaviour, then sure the company has a case.

Bottom line is, occasionally people make small mistakes, it doesn't mean you should (or even can) throw the contract in their faces and demand money.

Actually it does,
he has shown he's a good person and a good horse.


really just shows you guys really need to redefine your terms of "thief" and when/where to make *xxxisathief*. Among a few other aspects business related too.

Saying otherwise is quite ignorant


ALSO



This

Alex, the horse went through and showed a bunch of stuff showing that the only unallowed game that he played was some $44 tourney that he regularly played as he thought it was part of the stake. And that he won that event and you guys didn't even notice the mistake and posted on your website congratulating him for winning that. The only other mistake was a one time entry into the Big 55 which he showed a skype chat of him immediately explaining the mistake to you. Do you disagree with what he showed? It seems fair for you guys to need to respond to that and show how what he said was incorrect. If it was just the mistake of thinking that one $44 tournament was in his stake then it doesn't seem reasonable to be able to drop and expect makeup paid. If he is lying about the other events being allowed events then obviously that would be a very diff situation.

you can't "accidentally" register to a off stake game more than 1 time. I never registered for a tournament i didn't want to play in my life because i use the filter on stars to set up my stake limits so if he accidentally registered off stake tournaments more than one time its totally his fault and not professional at all.

Think you misunderstood. From what he said, pocarr lists out which tournaments each stakee can play. He thought this $44 bounty builder or whatever was within his allowed tournaments which is why he played it so many times. Again, this only matters if this was the only tournament this happened with. If none of those other tournaments were actually allowed then he clearly was regging things he wasn't supposed to. If it was just this tourney then it was likely an honest mistake. Which is why someone from pocarr should respond to whether his earlier post is accurate or not from their perspective.

Wow the more you look at this the worse it gets. Stable is clearly trying to freeroll the horse, assuming no further evidence comes forth.

- Horse plays $44 tournament, believing that's on his schedule.

- Horse binks a nice score in the tournament. Stable congratulates horse, and takes their part of the profit cut.

- Later on, when horse gets into some makeup, stable turns around and says 'hey, you weren't supposed to play that, you're dropped and we want our makeup back'.

Needless to say, if horse had kept on winning, stable would have been quite happy to take their profit cut (we know this, because they took the money from the $44 bink first time). But when he starts losing, oh no, horse has to pay back now. Essentially a freeroll for the staker.

spot on

Really understand it is to invest in countries where an initial bankroll is equal to 3 minimum wages and this will make people tend to scam/ steal more and you must be very demanding and rigorous with the contract because if not that kind of things it will happen a lot of times , it is perfectly understandable and I agree with that. Speaking of this particular issue I think a page that says JAIME IS A THIEF when you have not stolen anything and in fact the root of the problem is that him add one tournament $ 44 on your calendar that him win! and that its page official posting and congratulate jaime I think that is wrong. In fact in the post you put this player who told you him had only 3 negative reports, play MTTs (him if THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS) unauthorized, gave him a second chance. Jaime if I remember was constantly watching the videos of the page, going to your webinars with the coachs, play approximately 500 games per month which is pretty good for an avi buy-in $ 16 and also never stolen taking the opportunity to steal 3k who had cashed in the $ 44 6max progressive, because at that time you had told him he had to pay the make up and if dont do it you going to make a page and ¿them returns your the 3k bankroll They can perfectly steal them anyway because you were going to make a page anyway and him dont going to work a very good time? Him having having a family and taking away the opportunity to work with any other company? YET THE RETURNS 3k. NOT GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE and not even let explained simply attacked and alex I have seen conversations and there are points where you are very rude to the (not want to get totally against you because you really understand that the issue of stakear people this world generates enough stress). What I'm going to finish is that they are indications that want freerolling basically, and I repeat without wanting to be rude, there is another post here on page with another person from my country where you wanted to do the same. The best thing you should do is give low to the page and try to negotiate with him. You already saw earlier conversations skype with him and you say is a good person, you know he's a good guy, and you know that a page saying it is a thief because get into him calendar ONE tournament that innocently did not know that did not belong to his calendar is wrong.

PD: SOrry for my Incredible bad English even hard for me to write in English.

Ok so got our .Br manager to do some digging to find out exactly which games he played off stake with our funds. As you can see it's not simply the case of one tournament played off stake and us freerolling the player. Hopefully this puts an end to this.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...BaE/edit#gid=0

I also want to make it clear that we take pride in conducting our business in an extremely ethical and professional way. Some of you may lose sight of this given how negative this entire thread is in general. But for every 1 negative story, there is usually 20 or so success stories.

As of right now we are considering this matter resolved, and will talk with jaime about a repayment plan when he wants to, until then the site will not come down.

Alright well that pretty much seals it. Unless horse responds with something showing this info isn't valid, the horse clearly had a habit of regging stuff he shouldn't have been. I sort of believe it's possible it was not fully intentional if english isn't his first language but that isn't a good excuse and he still owes the makeup. If he wasn't sure if something was within his stake parameters then he should have been double checking with you guys.

This is way too many mistakes for any backer to reasonably let go. Horse should renegotiate his payment plan and get back to trying to fix this.

all thats needed providing some evidence guys.

What do you mean by that?

Yeah if that document is true, then of course you're owed the makeup back.

That's really what the first post should have been, since the way it's looked here for a bit is horse played one tournament off stake and then got unduly punished for it. It's good we have clarity now.

Problem is it's really easy to sympathize with the horse because he comes in and genuinely seems like a really nice guy.

At the end of the day though even if this gets resolved if you stake 150 players or wte pocarr does then not only will you get scammed and need to back yourself up legally but you also will spend an enormous amount of time on these issues, resolving them, checking, rechecking audits and numbers, writing 2p2 posts, creating websites, following up on repayments and speaking internally about the matter etc Nevermind just consuming your brain energy and not being able to sleep etc etc

it's really super time consuming so even if the horse scams and pays back all your money then you've usually also spent 30 hours (or way more) or so dealing with it.

The problem with the xxisatheif sites are that people just sign up blindly to contracts because they want to get staked. If the contract was written "if you break any terms of service you pay back $10000" then I doubt anybody wouldn't sign because of it and it would be enforceable and rob could use his [x] boxes, the fact is that the websites put extreme pressure on getting the money back and when he horse genuinely doesn't feel like he's wrong (like in this matter) he's just going to say no gfy. So I think the websites are pretty good way of doing it, if pocarr wanted to potentially really **** people over and profit from it then they likely could but I think right now they're just covering their own back.

Luckily at bitB we have never had a $ stolen from us yet but imagine if we did we would react with similar sadness as pocarr do.

+1

It wouldn't be enforceable in court for certain as it would constitute a penalty clause. The only way a written sum like that is enforceable is if it represents a genuine pre-estimate of the loss that would be inflicted on the company (and the court would decide what is a genuine estimate and what is an arbitrary figure). The argument that it was a genuine pre-estimate wouldn't be sustainable, particularly with the 'breaking ANY terms of service' line, since some breaches would cause extremely different amounts of loss.

Name: Haik Chatchatryan
PS: haiko87
Skype: haik.chatchatryan (haik.ch)
Email: don_haik@hotmail.com

Started off fine, couple coaching sessions and all seemed ok. Went offline for 10 days with no warning. Then emailed saying he had accepted a job and wanted out and would return the $200 roll.

2 weeks gone by and nothing, not replying to Skype messages.

Avoid.

Ian Brion (also known as Adrian Brion)

SCAMMER/SCUM BAG/THIEF/CHEAT



He has now gone missing for over two months. I have asked him daily for the money to be sent back that is in his account and have asked for audits. Yet he ignores me (a few players that know him told me that he has been reading my messages).



This is not the only problems I have had with Ian. He was very hard to work with to say the least, the coaches all agreed with me. Lazy, refused to listen the list goes on

I say CHEAT/SCAMMER for more than one reason. He was asking for loans/pre chops at one point, claimed he needed it for living/family etc. I later found out that he was using my money to play live events on his own

So I got angry and put a stop to this. I said he has to play xxxx amount of games per month to get pre/chops loans. He took advantage of my good nature and got someone else to play on his account. Someone who could barley play poker ....



This was his friend playing on his account, calling a shove with T8o for 30+ BB (I can post loads more hands if need be)

This was burning my money for many reasons. Ian was getting paid by me whilst his friends where playing so badly on his account. This is a pretty serious scummy scam Ian has pulled here

This is someone confirming it was not Ian playing in his account ....



Some more info on Ian

Full name:Ian Brion (aka Adrian Brion)

Pokerstars user name:ianbrion (phillipines)

Email: email:bmpap_pr@yahoo.com

Address:12-b gladiola st, roxas district quezon city 1101 phillippines

His facbook: https://www.facebook.com/ian.brion?pnref=friends.search

and https://www.facebook.com/adrian.brion.1?fref=ts

His twitter: https://twitter.com/tnx4dchipslol

I.P address: 112.198.82.31

He is a sponsored pro for this casino/site: https://www.facebook.com/pokerkingclubmanila?pnref=lhc

(I am in contact with them)

P5s:http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/ianbrion/

2+2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/203984/

Hendon mob:http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=254172

Overall Ian had a ton of support and help from me. At one point he said I was like his big brother, with the amount of support and help I gave him

Yet he took advantage of it all and cheated and scammed me

If you have time to follow Ian via social media you will see he is a man of the bible and quotes it a lot. Yet he is a man that steals/scams and cheats

I found that very interesting indeed!

I am in the process of making a website on Ian, I will post it here once it is finished

Ian owes over $20,000, I will consider taking down the website etc once he has paid it all back or is at least is making a payment plan and sticking to it

If anyone can give me any information on Ian which helps recovers the funds he owes me I will be giving you 25% of what you recover for me!

As of now Ian is now playing on another stake, playing live poker. Which is again breaking more rules as he is in tons of make up with me and has a stake with me (I have also been told that he is playing back online to, on another account of course)

Hopefully his current backers read this asap and I save them some money and time

Last but not least and I find this shocking he is a mod on this site....

http://pokermanila.com/index.php?top...4965#msg144965

Of course I will be contacting them and passing this on to

If need be I will post more screen shots/proof of how Ian scammed/cheated and was overall a terrible person to deal with.

20k bruh, damn, that'll get you killed in brazil