All things considered, taking into account the time the horse puts in to grind and work on their game, plus the backer always getting to recoup 'losses' in makeup...I'd say the backer should get about 3.5%.

I can't stop laughing at this post. You also fail to "consider" the risk a backer takes putting up 100% of the funds for what is usually around 50% of the profits and doesn't have much control over the backee's play.

If backees were to start getting backed with a cut so far in their favor and no risk, pretty much every stable wouldn't make money long term factoring in the number of times a stakee has to get dropped or when a horse steals money from the stable, which you would know all about.

We're all still waiting on the good ol' "unnamed source" to come in and provide how the backee gets to keep the remaining bankroll after getting dropped from a stake. So far no one ITT has agreed with that including multiple respected posters who have ran/run stables and have been backed before.

A join date of 2013 and you still fell for that one? Work on your forum game brah.

K it's time to admit this whole thing has pretty much been a level.

The "its all been a troll/level routine" is not as original as you believe, as lots of people use it when they get caught (usually with a very weak point in a debate) as a form of rationalization.

I check this thread weekly, and it was unusual to see your little routine for this particular thread (although it is common on the internet in general), in that most petty thieves such as you usually vanish when caught and exposed.

In the end, if you kept the backers money when dropped that is stealing, even if it was basically pocket change. You were not the first, nor will you be the last to do that, but one thing nearly all people of your kind has in common is that you get nowhere in the end. You just chose to get there over a trivial amount of money, so even your fellow thieves will likely dismiss you as a newbie.

All the best.


P.S. Mods should consider moving all the junk related to this guy to a separate thread as it is a form of clutter in this one. Also, how did this guy ever find backing in the first place...

Oh come on 3.5%, really? Did I really have to type out 'about tree-fiddy'? I bet someone would have still interpreted it as serious even then...

Just to be clear - I am keeping the money as the backer is a ****, though all the stuff about horses rising up against the machine was total bollocks. I'm just keeping the cash as it's my most +EV play and I don't feel bad about it because the 'victim' is a dick.

Yeah the tree-fiddy and brah were a nice salute to outdated uses of the internet. No doubt that you impressed yourself when you thought to use them.

Anyway, small timers gonna small time. You admit to stealing (even if you lie to yourself to rationalize it). You will no doubt steal again when you can in the future, its what people like you do. Essentially it is part of your DNA. At this point the mods should move this junk and/or ban you and life will continue without even a memory of you.

All the best.

Mr Poo Man i'd say about 250%.

The only thing this guy will be spinning from now on is his nuts in a blender.

GG mate, hope you got yourself a nice shiny vibrator outta that $100.

You could just say sorry you know. Return the $100 and then highlight the problems you had.

I have no clue if the backer was as bad as you say he was. But you might get some help/sympathy from others here if you go down the correct route. On top of that you can then maybe get a backing deal that suits you

Some of what you are saying/doing is all heat of the moment. Step back, chill and do the right thing and this can just be a lesson learned

Not all backers are bad buddy, some offer great deals and really help there players. Some even become friends with there players, I for one have done this with past and present players of mine

Anyway, good luck with it all. But and eye for an eye in this game won't work. He will sign more players in the future, you will really struggle to get a backing deal if you follow through on this. So all of this will hurt you much more than him

So you saying it is +EV to take/keep/steal the $100 is very wrong. The above what I am saying is +EV. Your route is - EV sorry to say

So the tirade about fighting against oppression was a level but stealing the 100$ was not. Cool.
You are right, this is your most +ev move, probably your biggest poker day to date, gg congrats wp.
Mods perma ban this buffoon, unclutter the thread and let's move on

Envoyé de mon SAMSUNG-SM-G890A en utilisant Tapatalk

The guy has two players in his 'stable' (both grinding $3 spins). Safe to say he's going absolutely nowhere as no one wants to play for him.

The man was a total idiot. The stuff about threatening to post on 2+2 after 5 hours without contact, and asking for an audit after I'd already gone to bed (then dropping the stake because he didn't receive it immediately) is absolutely true.

Would hate to imagine how he'd react to a standard downswing or someone going on vacation for a couple of weeks.

Just because it's the internet doesn't give someone the right to act however they choose without consequences. If this were a bricks and mortar job, and the boss was making threats to his staff every few hours and generally acting like a totally unreasonable dickhead, he might well expect his wallet to get hit in the form of constructive dismissal lawsuits, harassment cases, and low worker productivity as no one is willing to go the extra mile to help him out. I don't see why he should just be able to come out firing threats and insults, make a 100 thread long post on tiltbook, and get to walk away with the cash.

I'm quite happy just practicing my own BRM and grinding low stakes myself. It's not like I'm ****ed if I couldn't get a backer again...these aren't MTT's where it's almost a requirement due to the variance.

go into here and the other thread on tiltbook, why has there been not 1 other person agreeing with you?


Also want to point out if it were a "bricks and mortar job" and you went and acted like this with your lack of communication, your attitude, your excuses. you would have been fired too
AND to point out in a "bricks and mortar job" some bosses are constantly on your case way worse than that too.

Honestly saw your picture its clear you are a kid... this is really just a case of a Millennial being a baby.

Btw Still calling BS on your friend existing let alone saying you keep the bankroll.

Also i was serious.. what % should a backer get in a standard deal.. since putting up the bankroll isn't worthy of 50%.
or was that last post you made addressing me your way of admitting you are wrong and that the backers deserve 50%

As I said maybe you have valid points about him treating you wrong/bad. Which I am sure many here would of helped you with and discussed it with you.

But the minute you keep/steal his money you lose them. 2+2/poker community can be more valuable than being just a backer.

Not to mention, what if this guy makes a thief website? All your personal info etc all over the net.

Now forget poker, this now effects you in real life to. All over $100, really not worth it buddy. Before you say he can't do that etc, stealing is stealing. $1/$100/$1,000. Even if you get legal advise to take the site down I am not sure you would be backed up. It is theft, hence why he could make a thief website

He's going to regret stealing the $100, he's just too stupid to realize it yet.

Ah, so the personal attacks levied against me/backers in general and the PMs which you vehemently deny any scamming fall into which category?







Probably worse for you to admit that you're a scammer tho and not some white-knight fighting for misguided 'justice.' At least before, you were just a delusional moron who some people might have felt bad for. Now you're pure scum.

Hope the $100 was worth it.

lol i mean i know we can't expect him to be logical, but how does he actually believe that backers are parasites. Sure there are some bad backers just like there are bad horses, but a lot of backers are giving players opportunities to grind/improve when they normally wouldn't have that opportunity. Each of the parties has something the other needs (one has the money, one has the time and skills to grind) and they come together to create what is hopefully a mutually beneficial arrangement. Not that complicated.

Standard to keep the roll? Nope, you're a thief.

His "friend" doesn't exist.. or its a voice in his head.

I love this part the most - I guess the expectation was that everyone was going to let the big mean staker know how much he was in the wrong?

It may well be his friend is already in the NF thread!

Oh Fabian, your new thread is waiting for you ...

The guy is so thick I've got my doubts as to whether he could write a hello world script, nevermind design a website.

I'm not a pro player, I just play for fun and a bit of extra cash so not being able to get backing in future doesn't really affect me so much.

The first two PM's were not levels, more just telling an annoying ******* to mind his own ****ing business.

The third was a bit of a level, but with some truth in it. Stables do always try and intrepret the contract to favour themselves but cry about it when horse does the same. 'Parasites' was a bit far though.


50% cut is insane, especially at the micro limits. Maybe at high variance nosebleeds (where few ever are truly rolled for) it could be justified. At low stakes cash and SNG's? No, **** off.

A serious figure for a cut a backer deserves, assuming we're talking about lowish-medium limits...let's say up to $30 for SNG's, and up to 200nl for cash. I'd say about 30% cut would be fair here, providing horse is a proven winner which is almost always the case since stables don't often sign breakeven or losing players. The total monetary swing just is not high enough to justify a higher cut and plenty of people with a normal job could roll themselves for these games if they chose.

Keep in mind, for the deal to benefit the horse at 50%, even if the backer can put him in higher games, this would have to be a much higher game than player is rolled for himself to make backing +EV for the horse. Let's take spin and gos. If horse can roll himself for $7 buyins, but the backer can put him in $15 buyins, this isn't such a great deal for horse, as 100% of his action at a stake 2x lower is the same as 50% of his action at the staked limit, and at the lower limit his winrate will be higher because of more fish. The backer would need to be putting horse in $30 games for it to even start to make sense for the horse, and even then it's going to depend on his exact ROI's at the limits (for example if horse has 8.5% ROI at $7 limits but 4% ROI at $30 limits, he should be indifferent to getting backed or not as he's making 60c a game for himself at 30s with 50% but would also be making 60c for himself at the $7 limits with 100% of his action).

If we're talking about high stakes games...400nl+ in cash, $60+ SNG's, then 40% seems fair given the monetary swings are potentially beyond what most could roll themselves for. But 50% can rarely ever be justified unless it's some super nosebleed cash game/MTT the horse would never have a chance of playing on his own.

You call it theft, I call it justice.

50% is fine if there is a lot off of coaching involved. If not then I do agree that 50 is a lot when your have a good relationship with each other.

You're going about it the wrong way though. Enjoy the $100 and never be backed again. Maybe grind a roll with it, scammer.

The man was a dicklord for the whole stake (all 4 days of it rofl). Maybe this will serve as a lesson to him to treat the next horse with some respect.

He's had similar problems with another horse in the past where he demanded crazy amounts of updates then went mental after a few hours without contact, so maybe he's just one of those people destined to get burned until he wises up that you should treat people how you wish to be treated.

Then just end the deal and walk away don't steal his money as a lesson.

If a dick isn't punished for being a dick, where's his incentive to stop? Eventually he'll just run into someone he can bully around, so it's sort of a freeroll for him in that sense if those who stand up to his bull**** just allow him to walk away breakeven.

We're talking about $100 here, which seems an adequate amount to punish someone for acting the prick. If we were talking about $20k then yeah it might be a bit harsh, but I don't think it is in this case.

Other horse took exactly the same course as me BTW (kept the money, it was $50 in his case).