Hi, recently came into a dispute from a backing arrangement that was paused awhile ago and would like opinions on the matter.

>Backer agrees to stake horse without a legitimate contract and gives horse multiple loans in the duration of the stake for living expenses
>After a period of time, horse is in low 4 figures of makeup + loans
>Horse's financial situation becomes a burden and horse cannot continue to play poker unless the backer continues to give loans for living expenses, backer cannot continue to give loans to horse and has to pause the stake, however backer says he is willing to continue the stake with lower volume once horse finds a job and gets better financially situated.
>Backer gives one last loan for rent to give horse time to find a job, during this time horse gets another backing deal without backer knowing and does not find work for months.

At this point, I have gotten in contact with the horse and he agrees he will pay back what he owes in loans, however the makeup is a separate issue. Horse says he does not owe any of the makeup (Backer asked for 25% of it back and both parties could mutually end things). Horse also says Backer cannot stake horse or recover the past makeup amount at all by staking Horse, because the past events were considered Backer dropping the Horse and a stake cannot be paused and resumed at another time with the makeup amount staying the same.

Who is in the right here? Can backer still recover the makeup by staking horse? Should horse owe a % of the makeup back? Thanks.

Get a thief website up immediately that will bend him into shape

Being serious 25% is a extremely reasonable buyout based on everything you said. Horse is basically saying because you were unable to continue to pay my rent and feed me you forfeit the makeup on the basis that you were unable to fulfil your obligations.

I do think alot of these huge makeup figures with a **** load of it being loans at double markup could be avoided by backers cutting their losses earlier. If they need to give loans to keep a roof over your horses head maybe they aren't the right type of horse on and off the tables.

No, in my opinion, horse owes the full MU or whatever you agree to (25% is very generous IMO). Unless agreed beforehand, you are not responsible for him figuring out his life expenses if he plays fulltime but can't win. Giving multiple loans offstake is a mistake in my opinion though. If I was backing people in this situation, give them a wage based on games played and add it to MU or something similar. In my opinion it was easy to see the horse will not recover the loans unless he starts winning again.

Loans actually were not doubled, of the loans given, backer is charging a 4% interest rate even a year later with no payments received whatsoever as that is what was agreed to at the time. Backer learned a pricey lesson for being inexperienced and no longer fully backs players.

Yea sucks the guy is shady wonder if he's a asian guy named mike

Let's assume then that the plan was "stake is paused, horse needs to find a job and get on his feet financially, then stake will resume". If you look at it from that perspective - the horse did find a job - playing poker for someone. Stake remains paused at this point with makeup intact.

Horse and backer should find a mutual agreement for buyout. Horse and backer should also make new backer aware of situation.

Right but the horse did not tell backer he had found this new job and that he'd be willing to payoff a portion of his makeup (50%+ given how he has handled the situation imo). The horse was trying to weasel his way out of paying the backer ldo.

This was pretty much what I thought was going to happen, and the entire reason I have gave the horse a loan right as the stake was paused (along with helping with some small swaps afterwards when horse made a bit on his ownroll and needed to cashout for personal expenses. Because of this I am positive horse hadn't been looking for a job during the time horse was playing under another stake either. Horse also asked if we could possibly do an 80/20 split with the rest going towards makeup 3-4 months after so he could cover some of his expenses as horse still did not have a job and wasn't playing for his current backer's as he had no internet for some time. Surprisingly, many months later when horse is currently employed, makeup now disappears because horse says he was completely dropped. Unfortunately, it looks like I was too generous and left myself on the ****ty end of the deal because of it.

Now I am dealing with this former horse ignoring my messages for over a month now asking for a payment plan on the loans, while even when we were talking briefly a month ago only after I had to contact one of horse's friends just to get into contact with horse, horse still ignored me when I was asking what horse could ideally afford to pay back per month. Overall very frustrating experience, especially knowing I may never see a cent back, but I guess this is the risk you take when backing.