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Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40

07-20-2014 , 07:04 PM
infos:Both of them play a lot of conected cards.. did i play the hand good?my bets were good?


    Poker Stars, $4 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #29026231

    BTN: 2,943 (29.4 bb)
    SB: 24,910 (249.1 bb)
    BB: 3,060 (30.6 bb)
    Hero (UTG+1): 3,309 (33.1 bb)
    UTG+2: 1,181 (11.8 bb)
    MP1: 1,834 (18.3 bb)
    MP2: 6,824 (68.2 bb)
    MP3: 2,555 (25.6 bb)
    CO: 8,084 (80.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J J
    Hero raises to 200, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls 200, 5 folds, BB calls 100

    Flop: (740) 9 7 3 (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 347, MP1 calls 347, BB calls 347

    Turn: (1,781) 8 (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 605, MP1 raises to 1,277 and is all-in, BB raises to 2,503 and is all-in, Hero folds

    River: (4,940) 8 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 4,940 pot
    Final Board: 9 7 3 8 8
    BB mucked and lost (-1,834 net)
    Hero mucked J J and lost (-1,162 net)
    MP1 mucked and lost (-1,834 net)



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    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-21-2014 , 12:24 AM
    Horrible bet sizing...bad fold too...

    Flop bet into two players should be around 450-500 (there are almost no good turn cards for us).

    Flop 475ish sets us up for a PSB shove on the turn on a decent card.

    8 is not the best but no where near the worst.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-21-2014 , 06:55 AM
    agree more on flop

    turn looks close, don't think fold is horrible without more reads although i'd prob call too
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-21-2014 , 08:55 AM
    More on flop , shove turn.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-21-2014 , 09:04 AM
    My bets were really awful!! Agree. But do u like calling 2 allin with one pair hand with that turn that hits Villains?d u believe that they had just a pair?fold is too bad?is it good to play ur tour life on that tricky hand?
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-21-2014 , 02:44 PM
    the reason as to why u shud bet more otf is so that you don't face a tough decsion OTT and obv u don't want to give them good odds to be calling with their draws also mp1 is a shorty so u want to bet enough so u can get all his chips in.. You say they play a lot of connector cards, yeah sometimes they'll have a hand like J10 , 56s for the straight , and if you really think the BB has it , and it's likely to be in his range , then you can maybe b/f ott , i must say it's a tough spot , and folding OTT can't be terrible imo with strong reads on your opponents.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-21-2014 , 04:00 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boobsicles
    Horrible bet sizing...bad fold too...

    Flop bet into two players should be around 450-500 (there are almost no good turn cards for us).

    Flop 475ish sets us up for a PSB shove on the turn on a decent card.

    8 is not the best but no where near the worst.
    yeah, all of this.

    OTT, as played, the 8 gives you a gutshot to go with your overpair. Considering how much you've already invested from your stack and the pot odds you're getting you pretty much have to call.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 06:21 AM
    At first I strongly prefer the 2.5x pre >30bb, but I think minraising is not that big of a mistake. I like the Donk on the flop, but it should be higher here, I would bet atleast 400 (2/3 ps) here.
    The 8 on the Turn gives you a gutshot draw + overpair here. As you said Villains are playing much connected cards, I think c/c on the Turn would be my favorite decision. But as you face two all-in shoves, it would be an easy laydown if you decide to ch/c the Turn.

    As played you gotta call here because you already invested a decent amount of your stack.
    Personally, I think that one Villain has the completed straight and the other maybe on the Turn a Flushdraw + Midpair or something like this. I frequently see those type of holdings in that situations.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 06:37 AM
    pre - i'd make it 250 imo, just preference though esepcially on a 30BB early into a big field tournament. you could argue for 300 to get more in pre and make post decisions easier.

    flop - as played i'd bet 400-475. a 6, 8, 10 and I guess overs (Q, K, A) can be scary OTT and you want them to pay for those draws (especially in a 3way pot)

    turn - as played OTT i think you have to call.
    you should've shoved turn as played OTF IMO. You have two blockers for J10 so all you can fear are sets and two pair kind of hands, you don't want to let them see another card so apply the pressure when you're ahead most of the time (56% against sets, two pairs, pairs + draws)
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 07:23 AM
    I thought about shoving turn but i didnt know if w/ that turn i got called w/ worst hand than one pair if was a blank i did but now is it EV+?
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 10:36 AM
    I am not sure if I could fold for 30 bb to boot. However how you bet your hand I think as played it might be alright. you bet enough to give yourself room to fold if bb ripped. But then again I would be betting bigger too - so I think this is the wrong hand and wrong board to be betting small and pot controlling and giving yourself room to fold unless you wanted to make it look like that through your bet sizing to induce - but obviously that wasn't the case...

    I would have prefered to bet bigger myself so i can set up bet for stacks ott.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 10:42 AM
    Raise larger pre 30BB deep versus loose callers, bet larger on flop and turn, as played: call. You have plenty equity against hands that beat you, and are good often enough.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 05:59 PM
    I made small bets because i make same bets while i am bluffing or draw(risk less) and also not to make my self commited in strange spots like this!my strategy is awfull?i dont wanna have betting leaks!!
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-22-2014 , 07:34 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon
    I am not sure if I could fold for 30 bb to boot. However how you bet your hand I think as played it might be alright. you bet enough to give yourself room to fold if bb ripped. But then again I would be betting bigger too - so I think this is the wrong hand and wrong board to be betting small and pot controlling and giving yourself room to fold unless you wanted to make it look like that through your bet sizing to induce - but obviously that wasn't the case...

    I would have prefered to bet bigger myself so i can set up bet for stacks ott.
    So you're saying when you go 3 ways to the flop with JJ (somewhat uncomfortable) and see a flop of 972 rainbow it is okay to give yourself room to fold?

    Pretty spewey IMO...might aswell just check fold instead..or wait lets just fold pre because connectors will get there.

    Pretty big mistake/leak to even consider that.

    Should just bet flop enough to shove turn.

    Best flop we coulda asked for instead of J96
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-23-2014 , 12:53 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boobsicles
    So you're saying when you go 3 ways to the flop with JJ (somewhat uncomfortable) and see a flop of 972 rainbow it is okay to give yourself room to fold?
    No not at all. I totally worded it wrong. I guess if he had hands that he were to bet fold in his range (KQ QJ 67 33 ... JJ not in that range ldo) I don't mind the sizing with the intent to fold. Bet folding JJ here is not good. It was messy wording while typing a post on the toilet early in the morning. Sorry.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-23-2014 , 01:38 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boobsicles
    Horrible bet sizing...bad fold too...

    Flop bet into two players should be around 450-500 (there are almost no good turn cards for us).

    Flop 475ish sets us up for a PSB shove on the turn on a decent card.

    8 is not the best but no where near the worst.
    No it's not horrible sizing and 475 doesn't set us up for a psb, it'd be an overbet of 2100~ to 2600~. That's over a 20% increase!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boobsicles
    So you're saying when you go 3 ways to the flop with JJ (somewhat uncomfortable) and see a flop of 972 rainbow it is okay to give yourself room to fold?

    Pretty spewey IMO...might aswell just check fold instead..or wait lets just fold pre because connectors will get there.

    Pretty big mistake/leak to even consider that.

    Should just bet flop enough to shove turn.

    Best flop we coulda asked for instead of J96
    Yeah, that's not spewy at all to fold if you have reads that someone isn't bluffing a flop like that.

    There's plenty of flops we're happy with but not happy having crazy action on.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote
    07-24-2014 , 06:14 AM
    Pre is good, flop is good (could be a little bigger, but ~500 is only good if you want them to fold). Turn... dunno. I am calling against one, but when they both seem to like their hands we have to at least consider folding.
    Wrong fold.? Bigger 4.40 Quote

          
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