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Old 07-02-2012, 09:39 PM   #1
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What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t100 - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t39240 M = 18.69
BTN: t15860 M = 7.55
SB: t11787 M = 5.61
BB: t4105 M = 1.95
UTG: t32725 M = 15.58
Hero (UTG+1): t18723 M = 8.92
UTG+2: t17406 M = 8.29
MP1: t34676 M = 16.51
MP2: t9142 M = 4.35

Pre Flop: (t2100) Hero is UTG+1 with T T
1 fold, Hero raises to t2800, 1 fold, MP1 calls t2800, 5 folds

Flop: (t7700) 9 4 K (2 players)
Hero bets t4000, MP1 calls t4000

Turn: (t15700) 7 (2 players)

Hero?

I c-bet here for value since I think I still have the best hand most of the time here. After he calls c-bet though, it gets a little tougher. I'm fairly confident that what I ended up doing is not too bad, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on what line is best ott, and for the whole hand for that matter.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:10 PM   #2
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

It's hard to tell without info on villain.

could be any one of bet, c/c or c/f
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:13 PM   #3
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Any stats on him? Is he any good?

~1.7k pre, smaller otf ~ 3.3k.

As played, you can c/f turn vs someone good and probably jam vs fishes, since they mostly raise Kx+ otf.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:31 PM   #4
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

No stats on villain. I'm just looking for opinions of what others would do here in a vacuum (I'm trying to improve my theory skills etc). I'm also now interested to know why I should open to ~1.7 pre though? I feel like larger opens from EP and vice versa are typically better. In theory it should narrow the preflop calling ranges of those behind you thus making it a little less difficult to play well postflop OOP. I suppose you prefer the "open smaller in EP, larger in LP" camp?

Also, I liked my c-bet sizing cause I'm gonna have the best hand most of the time, and most of villain's hands that continue here will be draws. I am pretty much pot committing myself though with a larger bet size, but I don't think that's terrible. still the stack sizes in this hand made it pretty awkward.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:12 PM   #5
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by archimedes11 View Post
Also, I liked my c-bet sizing cause I'm gonna have the best hand most of the time, and most of villain's hands that continue here will be draws. I am pretty much pot committing myself though with a larger bet size, but I don't think that's terrible. still the stack sizes in this hand made it pretty awkward.
It`s not stacksizes, it`s SPR.
This hand shows why opening for smaller amount is better -- bc it creates better SPR for post-flop scenarios and allows you to open wider range pre.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:28 AM   #6
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

ha i can't believe i'm gonna say this but...

shove pre
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:54 AM   #7
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

meh, i jam turn.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:57 AM   #8
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

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Originally Posted by bs_jayhawk View Post
ha i can't believe i'm gonna say this but...

shove pre
I don't go by (M) for stack size implications I use (BB) and I think 23Bb is a bit too deep to jam here pre-flop UTG+1. If it were around 17/18bb or less, yea I wouldn't mind the shove with a balanced range.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:10 AM   #9
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by o0psIrivrdiT View Post
I don't go by (M) for stack size implications I use (BB) and I think 23Bb is a bit too deep to jam here pre-flop UTG+1. If it were around 17/18bb or less, yea I wouldn't mind the shove with a balanced range.
Yeah, it's super deep for sure but there are enough people with smaller stack to mitigate that concern. I guess it just depends on your table image and how comfortable you are post flop versus the players at the table. I think shoving is generally not too bad. Playing postflop is tricky with this stack size.

In theory, some sort of non allin betting sequence is optimal. So I basically agree with what you are saying. But in practice, jamming minimizes error and gets decent value. If everyone had us outstacked, I don't think i'm jamming anymore.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:35 AM   #10
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride View Post
~1.7k pre, smaller otf ~ 3.3k.

As played, you can c/f turn vs someone good and probably jam vs fishes, since they mostly raise Kx+ otf.
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride View Post
It`s not stacksizes, it`s SPR.
This hand shows why opening for smaller amount is better -- bc it creates better SPR for post-flop scenarios and allows you to open wider range pre.
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by bs_jayhawk View Post
ha i can't believe i'm gonna say this but...

shove pre
No
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:21 AM   #11
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride View Post
It`s not stacksizes, it`s SPR.
This hand shows why opening for smaller amount is better -- bc it creates better SPR for post-flop scenarios and allows you to open wider range pre.
sorry what's SPR? .....small preflop raise? haha i feel like that would be a good guess by me except it doesn't make sense in the context of ur sentence then.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:23 AM   #12
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

I assume this thread is about how to play against a random so I'll say shove. I mean yeah it's pretty straightforward with reads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archimedes11 View Post
sorry what's SPR?
stack-pot-ratio. How much your stack is effectively to the size of the pot. On the turn we have 16k to 8k in the pot so the SPR is 2.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:52 AM   #13
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by archimedes11 View Post
sorry what's SPR? .....small preflop raise? haha i feel like that would be a good guess by me except it doesn't make sense in the context of ur sentence then.
Should read some books.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:56 AM   #14
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

"small preflop raise"

lol
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:08 AM   #15
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Re: What line to take here with TT after c-bet is called?

I'm never ever c/cing here. either shoving or c/fing depending on the villain.

also, I would bet slightly bigger PF and smaller OTF.
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