Villain's stats: 30/23/2.7/7.4 over 84 hands.




Should I have just folded pre? My reason for defending was how loose he'd been and his c-bet % was very high too. He also seemed to have a habit of giving up on the turn. I'm pretty please with how the hand went over all. What should I done differently?

In before "don't defend so widely ******"

yeah fold pre

Too weak to defend pre.

The pot bet on the turn is very value-ish so I don't think you have enough to justify continuing with just the marginal middle pair and backdoor FD.

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Calling pre is Absolutely fine at these stack depths to min raise . Flop call fine turn checks by the look of it and villain bets around 3rd pot size so in theory we should be calling 67% of our range we get here with , but in this spot I don't think villain as any bluffs so MDF gets through out window as he would probably barrel his draws I expect villain to show up at this river with thin value always hands like 99 1010 jj weaker queens that didn't want to bet turn I'm surprised he never bet bigger on the river with set but as I said clear fold on river

I thought the pre call and flop call were ok at the time but people here made me doubt myself big time.

The flop bet screamed over card bluff c bet so i'm happy with the call. I had set my mind to the thought of him being full of **** which was why I called small river bet.

I call to much no doubt. Need to let go of hands like this and reassess rather than set my mind on a specific strength of hand and just thing ranges and playing the percentages.

Calling pre isn't terrible but you have to realize that your chances of flopping anything good with 75o are really slim. This hand shows the difficulty you can cave even when you flop something.

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yea i would fold pre too

Fold pre ez game

Preflop is horrendous. You're oop and basically can never win the hand at showdown unless you smash flop, it's hard to bluff cause you don't flop many draws or equity.

pretty tough for preflop to be horrendous when we need ~22% to breakeven against his range.

i am not saying that i am super thrilled to call pre but pot odds seem to simply dictate that it performs way better than folding. flop is sort of close i guess against that size. would probably talk myself into folding because we can have better 7x combos to call with and maybe even two black fives are a better x/c than 7x5d in that spot even though id most likely fold both. even if he does only have overcards its going to be tough to play future streets if we dont hit a 7 or a 5 it seems.

thats 22% to breakeven at direct face value. It does not take RIO or position into account. When you adjust your ranges for this calling pre definitely performs worse than folding.

There will times where we make our hand and lose alot of chips. ie: when the flop is K55 and he has KK or AA and wins by the river or if the flop is 57T and he has set. Even when we flop the nuts we can't extract the max value due to our position and will lose by the river a non 0% of the time.

what does this even mean?

also i def agree with rios being an issue but that doesn't make it a fold pre. assuming we are competent postflop we will surely know how to play certain board textures, know how both ranges play against each other and what we are supposed to do with this part of our range. i am not saying that this is a spot i am super excited about and its as close to the bottom of my calling range as it can get i guess yet still a call.

it means that once you adjust your bb defending ranges to account for RIO and position, calling with 57o performs worse than folding.

You have to realise that employing a strategy that constantly finds you playing junk hands oop is not a good way to make money playing poker. It really is that simple.

BB defense is one area where the game has really evolved and lots of pros advocate defending very widely. However, they are pros with top notch postflop skills. While BB defense is an important strategy, the rest of us have to adjust a bit to account for the fact that our postflop skills aren't quite at the level of a Negreanu or Doug Polk.

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well of course theres no math to prove your point so its kind of an irrelevant discussion. the concept of rio is sort of outdated anyway cause people got so much better postflop in recent years that they started to realize that auto stacking off with marginal tp hands in raised pots isnt the greatest idea. would you fold 78o in that spot as well?

playing "junk hands" oop is completely fine and more profitable than folding them if a) the price is right (which it is in ops spot) and b) you know how to play postflop (which people come to the forums for).

also your tone is pretty arrogant which is ridiculous given your advice is sub par to say at least. maybe being a little more open minded to an approach to the game you dont know yet or cannot comprehend atm wont hurt you.

edit: also btw there's probably no need to derail this thread any further because we seem to have completely different understandings of this spot so its fine to agree to disagree i guess. if you want to discuss this further, feel free to pm me.

I was going to also say you aren't factoring rio as well but seems a dead horse has been beaten. 75o is just such a terrible hand and yes 78o is a closer decision but a fold. Mid stakes mtt had a discussion on it. Basically you're negating how much disadvantage you are by being oop is the main thing. If the price is breakeven then it's prob better to fold oop esp with the bottom of your range. Your range always needs to have folds and this is a good spot.