Hi Guys
5 Euro freezeout near the bubble
BTN is playing very loose passive pre 53/0 after 38 hands -but willing to be a bit more aggressive postflop - we've tangled a bit and so far I've mainly got the better.
BB is tournament chip leader -playing pretty loose 37/22 from 68 hands - willing to see a lot of flops and try to put pressure with big stack

wondering firstly about raising pre - obv ahead of BTN's range but is it better just to complete and play post?

then on the flop I'm initially pretty happy to play for BTN's stack but after BB calls and BTN raises maybe it's time to bail out?

Raising pre is mandatory, Folding OTF is totally out of the question. You are smashing both players' ranges. I would probably just jam here, as getting tricky and flatting only creates weird situations on turns with a dry side pot. We're already looking at more than a 50% chip up if we hold vs the button.

You have to raise here specially against loose players, as played we hit pretty good the flop and should feel OK going all in.

guess btn can have worse Qx here based on what you wrote but we will see better hands for sure

if someone flopped a set or if btn l/c aces pre good for them but theres no getting away from this hand on this flop. jamming now expecting to see worse Qs, straight draws and some random jams with mid pair way more often than hands that have us crushed.

Don't know how often a 53/0 is raising his draws here. I think it's closer than most people think. Not to mention we have to put in 60bb vs BB calling range

Also I'd make it 10-12k pre


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Interesting reads on the BTN. If loose limpy pre then aggro after flops means a lot of strange combos could have nailed this flop, or be drawing. Given the stacks, I would jam and hope BB folds and you are fine versus BTN.

If BTN is "creative" postflop then he/she could have a wide range here. The problem is the BB. Could the BB play that way with AQ, QJ, etc? And would BB fold those as a big stack or call it off? That read is crucial.

If I had no reads at all, then I would jam. With the given reads, probably jam.

If either opponent was ABC TAG then I fold.

If either player was an absolute crusher i might make a very tight fold. However against most likely random fish at $4 IPoker I go with it here

So hard to know where you stand in spots like this. You are legitimately behind 44/55 and AQ, and maybe a 54s, but that's about it. Can't put either of them on Q5/Q4 or a slowplayed AA/KK. But there also aren't many draws out there. Can't put them on 32 so the only possible draw is 76. Also strange that BB has been playing pretty laggy but here he cold calls pre and then flats your CB with BTN still to act. Is that actually a show of strength from an otherwise aggressive player? Who the hell knows, I think I'd probably just go with it.

Thanks for responses - I guess it is about how much credit to give them - esp BTN

I think in his shoes facing a bet and a call I would be folding anything worse than KQ
- I knew little about him except that he limp calls a lot pre - which doesn't suggest a good player - but i hadn't seen him make any big mistakes post flop.
I think there's a rule that someone made up that we should give people credit for being reasonable players until they've shown us otherwise.

But then lot of limp-callers won't give up any any pair after the flop....
Dunno Dunno

Fwiw I called ( should have shoved) BB folded and BTN showed up with AQ

Meh, it happens. BTN is 53% vpip, just happened to have the goods. Tough spot, real hard to get away from. At your last decision point you are basically stuck, and I see what you meant about BTN, he kinda overplayed his TPTK and is a little spewy post flop.


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Wow, this one causes me great pain to think about. There are so few hands someone would shove with that don't beat you.

I feel like in the moment. I would just cry a little bit inside, tank for a really long time and then pay him off. When it feels that bad to call, it usually almost always is... That is just a really sucky nightmare spot for you. Ouch.

So one thought I am having.... Is this a spot where you check it down a street or two rather than opening on the flop? It's a rather dry flop and you're not really expecting your opponents to be holding much. How much value are you really getting when you lead out, while out of position? I know they are expecting you to cbet, so you do get some callers with a stray 4 or 5, sometimes...but not often.

This is just a nightmare hand. I don't know the correct play.