Icm suicide on big 5.5 final table?
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 29
Hello yall. Need your input on a bust out hand in the big 5 FT. Should i shove and get it through often or just make sure the 7 bb stack busts before making plays like this? I feel pretty crappy about it afterwards, especially with the sick run out lol.
PokerStars Hand #174600671082: Tournament #1994285099, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XLIII (35000/70000) - 2017/08/21 1:15:19 ET
Table '1994285099 174' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: joran1 (1319384 in chips) (18bb)
Seat 2: Villain (3210260 in chips) (45 bb, no stats)
Seat 3: losstime (2118994 in chips) (30bb)
Seat 4: Hero (986500 in chips) (13.5bb)
Seat 5: Red_Foo_17 (1321853 in chips) (17bb)
Seat 6: dexitoo (3983746 in chips) (56bb)
Seat 7: weeman235 (2150585 in chips) (30bb)
Seat 8: dzidek84 (523678 in chips) (7bb)
joran1: posts the ante 8750
Villain: posts the ante 8750
losstime: posts the ante 8750
Hero: posts the ante 8750
Red_Foo_17: posts the ante 8750
dexitoo: posts the ante 8750
weeman235: posts the ante 8750
dzidek84: posts the ante 8750
Hero: posts small blind 35000
Red_Foo_17: posts big blind 70000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero[Ks Qs]
dexitoo: folds
weeman235: folds
dzidek84: folds
joran1: folds
Villain: raises 70000 to 140000
losstime: folds
Hero: raises 837750 to 977750 and is all-in
Red_Foo_17: folds
Villain: calls 837750
*** FLOP *** [Qc Th Qh]
*** TURN *** [Qc Th Qh] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [Qc Th Qh 9h] [Ah]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [Ks Qs] (three of a kind, Queens)
Villain: shows [5c 5h] (a flush, Ace high)
Villain collected 2095500 from pot
Hero finished the tournament in 8th place and received $179.41.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2095500 | Rake 0
Board [Qc Th Qh 9h Ah]
Seat 1: joran1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Villain showed [5c 5h] and won (2095500) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: losstime (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Hero (small blind) showed [Ks Qs] and lost with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 5: Red_Foo_17 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: dexitoo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: weeman235 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: dzidek84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Payouts:
1st: $2142
2nd:$1502
3rd:$1054.12
4th:$739
5th: $519
6th:$364
7th:$255
8th:$179
9th:$125
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,433
My philosophy on final tables is to minimize variance as much as possible. You'd be amazed at how few micro players understand ICM and will allow you to ladder up by taking themselves out.
In this spot you don't have a huge amount of fold equity against the second largest stack at the table and there is a player with 7bb who is about to get hit by the blinds again. So I wouldn't take the high variance line of 3b-shoving. Although I never advocate calling in the SB, this is a spot where it wouldn't be a bad play. It sets you up to get it in on the flop with a low SPR and a hand that can flop really well. And if BB comes along for the ride and makes it a 3-way pot, that's actually a good outcome here.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 157
yea, i would fold because of the icm and wait for the short stack bust. Calling Ip is a option if you have reads on the villain and u know the blinds are tight. Shove is a bad play .
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,132
Depends on villain, but probably a slightly profitable shove. Would likely pass readless.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,822
Actually might be close. Lets put it in ICMiser and see. Hero was in second to last place already. I might like a flat call pre better, and able to fold if you miss. No reads on villain, but as played villain was out of line, imo.