Is it right to fold AA from the BB when you have 2bb and there is an all in for 15bb a call from a stack with 15bb and a reshove from the big stack on the bubble?

assuming it's a freeroll where you're on the bubble of winning $1m it might very well be.

*there are actually satellite scenarios where it's correct but I think if you're in the BB with 2bb you need to call but perhaps find a fold if you're otb or maybe even in the sb.

Kinda depends on format and payout structure but usually it's gonna be slightly +$ev to call with AA (and to fold everything else).

Depends on the payout structure and how many people left and so on but it's highly probable that you should AA.

MTTs are so top heavy that you having 6BB instead of 2BB won't really make big of a difference in the long run. You won't realistically win it or reach final table so it's better to mincash.

AA is often a fold in 6max SNGs with 3 players left (2 get paid), so I am fairly certain it's even easier to fold them in MTTs.

Look at it like this. AA probably have around 65% of holding. In 1 out of 3 ocassions you will get nothing so you are minus and in 2 out of 3 you will get something. You need to go deep enough in those 2 out of 3 situations to counter the loss in 1 situation. Since MTTs are so top heavy this usually means you have to go very deep, which is unlikely with 6BB.

Greg Merson won the main even with 2BB's...

The only instance I ever consider folding AA preflop is during sattelites where I am close of getting my ticket and I do not want to risk anything against other players and maximise my chances of getting it. In all the other situations I call or shove or whatever I have to do without thinking twice.

You can also win it by going all-in every hand. Doesn't change the fact that is highly unlikely.

In 6max SNG with 1200,1200, 600 stacks and 100 BB you fold every card if you are 600 stack and both 1200 stacks go all-in by nash standards with AA giving -2.10% EV and KK giving -11.5% EV.

So let's assume we have equal chance of winning in both examples so around, at one point we are left with 1800 chips vs 1200 and are playing for 30% of prize pool and in MTTs we are left with 6BBs and playing to survive more then half the remaining players just to make it even since MTT structure is so top heavy.

Ummm, no it's not

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, yes it is.

http://hands.holdemresources.net/?id=1levsatqg9g9u

Lol nice link.
HoldemResources Nash Results

Like i said, call AA, fold everything else.

Also, do i really need to point out that the 2 biggest stacks going allin with exactly the same stack isn't THAT common of an occurence on the bubble of a sng?

/derail.

OP, how about looking at stacksizes/payouts/structure/players remaining/etc and just use common sense in the few unique spots where folding AA pre might be an option.

Actually that is linear nash equilibrium. You can investigate some time on software page and the topic of holdemresources calculator.

The person who made/is spokesperson of their website and product said that website gives out linear nash equilibrium, because unrestricted nash equilibrium would take too much time on the website.

ICMizer also linear nash equilibrium that's why it gives same result.

You can try holdemresources calculator and give it a go with unrestricted nash equilibrium you will see it's - EV to call with aces.

This is linear nash. It says 0.5% which is AA but if you click AA it still says it's -EV. I don't know if that is a bug or not.

The one I gave is unrestricted nash equilibrium. Of course you are right and as soon as amount in chips changes between the 2 bigger stacks you should call with aces by more then a few chips you should call with aces.

EDIT: As I said for the OP. 3 people went all-in so they must have something and aces do not do well in multi-person spots (aren't heavy favorite, they are still favorite). With 3 people all-in and on the bubble, especially if it's a big mtt you are 100% guaranteed in making the money by folding and since you are the shortstack if you lose you 100% don't get any money if you lose. The only question is if you are able to over come the loss you will receive with aces by going deep enough in tournament with semi-low stack (depends on average stack which you didn't provide). With 4 people (counting you) all-in you will have around 9BBs. If the average stack was something like 10BB then you can call but I don't know. If average stack is 30BB then I would certainly fold.

not under any normal tournament circumstances.

If there are antes we are talking about 5xing your stack if you call and win, but if you fold you are for sure priced in to call atc the next hand, with a higher chance of busting and fewer chips to win if you don't.

If it's a real mtt and not a sat i can't ever see folding aces here.

If it's not a satellite, don't fold AA preflop

If it's on the bubble of a normal tourney, don't fold. If you are worried about the mincash then you are playing too high for your roll. If you've sattied into the Milli or Super Tuesday or something really big, and a mincash at that stake would make a huge difference to your life/roll, then I suppose there might be a genuine argument, but certainly not in your normal tournaments, just shovel it in as quickly as you can.


Firstly, against three villains, as you describe in your OP, you'd end up with 13-14bb (depending on antes) if you win the hand, not 6bb, and that's hugely better than 2bb. Taking the negative route of simply aiming to mincash is a vastly inferior play, compared to giving yourself a genuine chance at a stack with fold equity.

You won't mincash every tourney, you won't even mincash 1 in 4 tourneys, so aiming for that alone is a long term losing strategy.

Lol no it isn't "often a fold" at all; it's only a fold under the most extreme ICM circumstances. And it's even harder (or rather, it's plain wrong) in an MTT, because there's no ICM pressure unless we're at the FT. You actually have this concept completely upside-down.

What does this even mean?

Of course you'll go out sometimes, that's the whole point of MTTs, but that's not a very good excuse not to go all in. And the ones where you survive the all in, you will go much deeper on average than the ones where you decline the all in just to hang on for the mincash.

THIS is exactly why the mincash is so worthless compared to trying to win the damn thing, and why we want to get it in with the best starting hand that NLHE has to offer.