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This is Fold or Shove right? This is Fold or Shove right?

03-24-2017 , 12:28 AM
Blinds: 400/800 - 9 handed
UTG: 11526
UTG+1: 52076
Me: 21400
other 6 will end up folding so leaving their stacks out for sake of space

UTG shoves 11526 preflop
UTG+1 calls 11526

I have T T

This is Shove or Fold scenario correct? In 0 scenarios we are CALLING? My roommate is arguing with me that he would CALL the 11526 and then fold the last 9.9k chips on the flop "if I find a reason to fold" meaning an A/K/Q is on the flop.

Can someone explain the logic here, I want to know the correct play here and why. I think there's only two options, shove or fold - there's about no scenario in which I'm CALLING the flop and folding on a bad board. I feel like the guy with the most chips is normally calling with worse than me here, and I see some scenarios behind UTG. I'd love to see AK v AQ v my TT. Won't be how it turned out, but without knowing their hands, can someone explain the plays here.

ON the flop, I'd be 21% to call given it'd be 9.9k to win 46k pot (considering UTG+1 is going to just put the last 10k in). So I find that in about no scenario am I even folding the flop, therefor making it shove/fold.

I think I'm right that you're not committing 55% of your stack preflop and then folding the last 45% on the flop. I just can't see how that's possible. I'm losing braincells

Thanks

Edit: Just did some math, so I put the first guy on AK. IDK what I'm putting the second guy on, I thnk he calls with a PP or any AK/AQ/Ace suited
So if we just count the first guy as AK - we see an Ace or a King at least 1 of the 3 flop cards 36.7% of the time. Meaning according to my roommate, he's folding 1/3 of the time. CAn someone tell him why that's bad, or tell me that I'm insane for thinking that it's terrible to call here and not shove/fold.

Last edited by Speakmore; 03-24-2017 at 12:37 AM.
This is Fold or Shove right? Quote
03-24-2017 , 05:36 AM
Calling is not an option. Shoving is not a good idea if second player is a tag or reg. Without information about players and tournament, i will say fold.
This is Fold or Shove right? Quote
03-24-2017 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakmore
Edit: Just did some math, so I put the first guy on AK. IDK what I'm putting the second guy on, I thnk he calls with a PP or any AK/AQ/Ace suited
So if we just count the first guy as AK - we see an Ace or a King at least 1 of the 3 flop cards 36.7% of the time. Meaning according to my roommate, he's folding 1/3 of the time. CAn someone tell him why that's bad, or tell me that I'm insane for thinking that it's terrible to call here and not shove/fold.
You can't just put the villains on 1 hand...

You need to apply a full range to them.
This is Fold or Shove right? Quote
03-24-2017 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaciem
You can't just put the villains on 1 hand...

You need to apply a full range to them.
Surely, I agree with you. I have some hand history with him! And he did indeed have AK. Of course there's the off variation in which he has AA or KK and open jams it? But yeah, I agree to put them on a range.

And clearly this is where I'm just bad and can't gold TT. Top 20 pay, so needed to try and get more than 20k chips - was my thought process. And I guess 'hoping' the table chip leader was just calling for bounty purposes with like a suited ace, same hand as him, AQ or worse PPL. Thus I felt my jam was okay. But I agree you agree really never calling in agreement instance.
This is Fold or Shove right? Quote
03-25-2017 , 08:55 PM
yes you cannot call, SPR is way too small
This is Fold or Shove right? Quote
03-28-2017 , 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakmore
Top 20 pay, so needed to try and get more than 20k chips - was my thought process. And I guess 'hoping' the table chip leader was just calling for bounty purposes with like a suited ace, same hand as him, AQ or worse PPL.
Hang on it was a bounty tournament? This could change everything. How much bounty was on the OR and on you? Was it a progressive bounty? How do the bounties at stake compare to the rest of the table/ tournament average/ regular payouts and buyin?
This is Fold or Shove right? Quote

      
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