$20,000/$40,000 Blinds No Limit Holdem
Seat 1: Hero (BB) ( $511,380 )
Seat 2: UTG ( $224,990 )
Seat 3: UTG1 ( $998,378 )
Seat 4: MP1 ( $615,935 )
Seat 5: MP2( $111,847 )
Seat 6: HJ ( $59,278 )
Seat 7: CO ( $620,363 )
Seat 9: BTN ( $878,289 )
Seat 10: SB ( $236,540 )
Antes posted ($4,00/Player)
SB posts small blind [$20,000]
Hero posts big blind [$40,000]
Dealing down cards
Dealt to Hero [ Tc, Th ]
UTG folds
UTG1 folds
MP1 folds
MP2 folds
HJ folds
CO folds
BTN raises [$120,000]
SB folds
Hero in the BB?

Payouts are 18/23/33/42/54/80/107/142/193
No reads/stats on Villain, 2nd hand of the FT.

Which play is optimal- jamming pre or call/evaluating/donk-leading flop?

All opinions welcomed, thanks.

I'm not an ICM expert, but seeing as there's 1 guy with a blind and a half and one player with less than 3 blinds, this might actually just be a fold. That being said, I'm never flatting here, and more than likely shipping my stack in his eye. But I am curious if there are any ICM gurus around here to chime in.

When you're this short there is only two options; fold or shove. In this case, TT is far too strong to consider folding 12 bbs to a bu open.
I would assume icm is for marginal spots and when the payjumps are more significant. Icm doesn't really count in this spot considering the minimal payouts and payjumps. Folding TT w 12 bbs against a bu open just to TRY And make an extra $5-$10 is asinine. You're playing for top 3!

Even though there is one guy with 1bb I think you have to shove. Not like the BTN is going to call of 2/3 of his stack light. If you win, you are in chip lead and you can bully the table.

When I put this into ICIMIZER with normal ranges you can easily shove here.

It's an interesting spot - Pretty high ICM factor so not as obvious a shove as it looks. I'm struggling to range the 3x open - in V's position I'm going to be shoving pretty wide and probably just open-raise monsters - it's hard to have a r/f range because V is committed to calling sb.

I'd call a shove despite ICM and i guess we're too strong to do anything else but shove now - but if i had a read that V would normally shove in this kind of spot then maybe I could fold this.

I'm really not trying to be rude to anyone or disrespect anyone's game, but there is so much "icm" talk it makes my head spin.
In this spot, the next pay jump is like $5, then payjump after that is around $10... icm (in this case) really shouldn't even be considered until top 3, maybe 4.

Is it really that important to pass up on a good spot to make an extra five bucks? What's your PayPal address, I'll send you $5.

I hope you're joking, but I fear you're not.

Ok, I'll bite... joking about what exactly? What in my response was so funny or wrong?

All of it. To suggest ICM shouldn't be considered because the pay jumps aren't substantial is ridiculous. Clearly you are in the wrong forum (For all we know this could be a $1 tourney and OPs bankroll is $50). Literally no one has stated that this hand is a fold. To ignore ICM says more about your game than it does anyone else's, to be honest. So I don't take offence to your rude post, but you can donate that $5 in my name to the charity of your choice.

I do not believe even ICM is against a shove here. It is too big rise to count is solid hand instead of steal IMHO.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

So in response, I agree with the overriding theme of Shove>Call>Fold (I think 3 handed, the option of folding would be slightly over-tight, but certainly an option). I was trying to weigh up between calling & folding. If V is never folding a 3x, surely it would be better to call/donk lead 90% of dry flops given the 1:1 SPR, but if he has bluffs/ a lot of A highs/folds, surely jamming to prevent a loss of equity is optimal.

Essentially I suppose the question could evolve to 'How should a 1BB stack in the SB effect a competent player's range shorthanded'.

Thanks for the helpful responses guys. It seems like a question with a somewhat obv answer but also there were some factors to consider.

My post wasn't meant to be rude to the o.p. (Or anybody) and I apologize if some took offense to it. I understand this is a place where people want to learn, and I try to give my best advice how I see it but also I try to keep an open mind about others' opinions. But sometimes I just completely disagree (even with the almighty GTO And ICM)

I know nobody said it was a clear fold but some icm responses on these forums just surprise me. People are so inclined to fold their way into the money, or to bump up $8 in the pay scale... that to me is "ridiculous"

And in my opinion the icm in this case IS insignificant. That's not a knock on the op's br or his game selection (as I play $5-$15 tys) so I know that low limit tys are so much more top heavy you really cannot be afraid to bubble.

If you buy in to a ty for say $11 and keep min cashing for 15 for a net profit of $4, that's going to add up to a not much at all. Obviously this is just an example but it's the principle.

ICM matters but it's not that relevant here since we'll have enough equity to still jam easily vs a button raise. ICM doesn't consider future hands and situations though. Besides we have only 13 blinds to begin the hand. Also ICM isn't an end all and you still want to win the mtt.

But yeah jam preflop even vs his 3x.

What?

Read "Kill Everyone" - it may help you make more sense of ICM.

Basically this is a high ICM situation because we are medium stack on big stack at a point when payjumps are significant relative to the buy-in. It makes a significant difference to $EV especially in all-in situations. So for instance if we somehow knew that V had AJ it would be -$EV to gii even though we are ahead and have pot odds.

you can obviously ignore ICM if you like but by doing so you lose money. It makes no more sense than ignoring pot odds.

Thank you

ICM is more of a factor when it is 5 - 6 handed and laddering is important to take into consideration. Here when the pay jumps arn't too significant 9 handed im happily jamming here.

UL, nice run.

Thank you

ICWYDT

Lol

I did not see what he did there.. please enlighten

jesus, did he really call with AJs. unfortunate.

Think even though icm is a consideration you gotta jam for sure. Against a btn range TT is too strong.

although If i was Vil i would be open jamming AJs on the btn here, BB has to fold a lot of their range here and i feel open shoving is much better than r/f or r/c

way too strong to fold. jam it in there and hope for the best :S