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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 05-10-2017, 09:25 AM   #1
Agharazi
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Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

Hi guys,

Here is the situation. I am on the FT of a $3.3 MTT. There are 8 left. I am on LJ w QQ 24BBs deep 5th in chips. I raise to 2BB, short stack 3b shoves, then a guy 4th in chips reshoves (covering me), everyone else folds to me. Do I call or do I fold? I ran this situation through HRC and it is painful to see that not knowing 4b shove range of my villain doesn’t help me 🙂 Basically, if we widen his range to TT+ and AQ/AQs+ we have a somewhat + $EV, but if we narrow his range to JJ+, AK+ then we have to fold. Now,my question is what do you think is usually the range that you expect a villain to 4b reshove here? And do you end up folding QQ for ICM reasons?

I called and ran into the top of his 4b range – AA and unfortunately busted the MTT. Still not sure what the best play was.

P.S. Hand converter seems to not work. I'll give the text below:

PokerStars Hand #170191263901: Tournament #1905055366, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIX (2800/5600) - 2017/05/10 0:33:58 CUST [2017/05/09 16:33:58 ET]
Table '1905055366 14' 9-max Seat #3 is the button (won the previous hand)
Seat 2: lykashevich (174224 in chips)
Seat 3: alison.lima (582246 in chips)
Seat 4: patrickbocsa (62777 in chips)
Seat 5: leo.amaral (400986 in chips)
Seat 6: camelot1988 (107238 in chips)
Seat 7: dc_Dima (596198 in chips)
Seat 8: Agharazi (134862 in chips)
Seat 9: Caduut (101469 in chips)
lykashevich: posts the ante 700
alison.lima: posts the ante 700
patrickbocsa: posts the ante 700
leo.amaral: posts the ante 700
camelot1988: posts the ante 700
dc_Dima: posts the ante 700
Agharazi: posts the ante 700
Caduut: posts the ante 700
patrickbocsa: posts small blind 2800
leo.amaral: posts big blind 5600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Agharazi [Qh Qd]
camelot1988: folds
dc_Dima: folds
Agharazi: raises 5600 to 11200
Caduut: raises 89569 to 100769 and is all-in
lykashevich: raises 72755 to 173524 and is all-in
alison.lima: folds
patrickbocsa: folds
leo.amaral: folds
Agharazi: calls 122962 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (39362) returned to lykashevich
*** FLOP *** [Kc 3h 7c]
*** TURN *** [Kc 3h 7c] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [Kc 3h 7c 7s] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Agharazi: shows [Qh Qd] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
lykashevich: shows [Ac Ah] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
lykashevich collected 66786 from side pot
Caduut: shows [As Ts] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)
lykashevich collected 316307 from main pot
Agharazi finished the tournament in 7th place and received $46.73.
Caduut finished the tournament in 8th place and received $33.43.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 383093 Main pot 316307. Side pot 66786. | Rake 0
Board [Kc 3h 7c 7s Tc]
Seat 2: lykashevich showed [Ac Ah] and won (383093) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 3: alison.lima (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: patrickbocsa (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: leo.amaral (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: camelot1988 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: dc_Dima folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Agharazi showed [Qh Qd] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 9: Caduut showed [As Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sevens
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:13 PM   #2
bellyfrog
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

This spot is disgusting. If I think the 3better is a bit of a wild man I'm probably going to call and if he seems tight/solid I'm probably folding. ICM is a pretty huge deal here but we also should consider the times we win a huge pot and have a commanding chip lead and are in position to just dominate the rest of the FT.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:48 PM   #3
Agharazi
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

Right, agree with you. I called as I have thought that jumping 2-3 places won't change much for me in terms of $s, but if I take a chip lead I can actually raise my way to the 1st. The only thing, Belly, it is not a 3bettor we are worried about, but the 4b reshove guy. I am calling 3b shove all day long, my problem was with a 4b jam. But anyway, I think that's what you meant
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:19 PM   #4
bellyfrog
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

Yep sorry I meant the 4b.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:45 AM   #5
Captain-Hindsight
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

reads?

If it's really top heavy 1st > 16x9th is my measure I'd gamble. THB i'd probably just call anyway but if the payouts mean something to you, you can fold
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:19 AM   #6
Nixie Bobtie
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

I think it's a tough but makeable fold without a confident read that this guy (4bet) is shoving unusually wide. I don't know if the majority of players would be shoving JJ in his position, but I think he's throwing away TT. That doesn't give many hands that you're really happy for him to be doing this with

If the 3bettor shoves 99+, AQ+ (he was actually wider than this and I really don't like his play there)
and the 4bettor shoves QQ+, AK+
Hero is 33%, 3bettor is 23% and 4bettor is 44%. Beyond the ICM calculation itself, I just don't want to be going out of this tournament 44% of the time - assuming I felt I had some sort of skill edge. Not just because of the pay jumps, but also because there must be better spots ahead. I'd rather jam my remaining stack with far weaker hands on the button than put it all in here. If I felt I was against a very tough table then I'm gambling here

It's such a marginal situation - can totally understand the call
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:12 AM   #7
Agharazi
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

Thanks for input everyone. As I said if we take ICM into account, HRC says it is a fold, if villain is shoving AK+, JJ+, which is a reasonable range not knowing the opp. The only question here is how much weight do we give ICM in this spot. How valuable a pay jump is to us, considering if we call and win we can apply so much pressure and take an easier path to the top 3. So, if the villain is a normal thinking player and payout is important QQ is a fold. Otherwise it is a call.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:53 AM   #8
robert_utk
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agharazi View Post
Thanks for input everyone. As I said if we take ICM into account, HRC says it is a fold, if villain is shoving AK+, JJ+, which is a reasonable range not knowing the opp. The only question here is how much weight do we give ICM in this spot. How valuable a pay jump is to us, considering if we call and win we can apply so much pressure and take an easier path to the top 3. So, if the villain is a normal thinking player and payout is important QQ is a fold. Otherwise it is a call.


Ugh, tough spot. I agree with your analysis. Hindsight is always easy, but you only had a small commitment to the pot and QQ is a fold and maintain your stack, especially if someone might bust out and you move up a spot in payout.


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Old 05-18-2017, 01:56 PM   #9
WHO_RUNIT
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

I know it's 3 dollar tournament but it's hard to picture someone cold 4-bet re-shoving with AA, especially if they had you covered and weren't a short stack. I would rarely put someone on AA or even KK here... and for that reason and the fact that you only have 24 bb's I'm probably calling.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:57 PM   #10
WHO_RUNIT
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

actually, i just looked at the chip stacks and there all pretty close to eachother. I don't know, I'd still probably call.
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Old Today, 05:01 AM   #11
Colin_Piddle
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Re: Do we fold QQ on the FT for ICM reasons

Trival Call
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