ok

1) calling the shove DOES close the action.

2) if you are going to fold MP2K to a bigstacks third-pot c-bet, just fold pre. seriously.

hands that beat us: 33, Ax

hands that don't beat us: Kx, any flush draw, all underpairs, JQ, Q10, J10, air

i just think its ridiculously weak to flat a small MP raise and fold to a 1200 bet into a 3200 pot when we have over 200bb's and villain will be firing flop over 80% of the time

its leaving you to open to getting owned a lot, especially with the prevalance of c-betting

1st hand fold
2nd hand fold flop
3rd hand instacall

can you please explain why? i'm curious, everybody seems to be advocating folding

I haven't thought about all the hands yet but there is no way hand #2 is a fold on the flop. We're getting better than 3:1 on a board where we basically never have less than 33% equity. We only need 25%ish to break even.

I also think calling pre flop is the best play in hand #2. The majority of the time we'll be taking a flop against a lone villain, in position, ~60bb effective deep with a hand that flops well and if someone behind us jams we can call too. I think 3betting is kind of a waste of the value of the hand and the flop action is a great example of what I'm talking about. We're getting it in against a fairly wide range consisting of flush draws, hands which we dominate, and hands which have us beat. It's plausible to have as much as 36% against his range, and we're getting such a great price. I think if you 3bet here it's +EV but the range you'll be playing against is so much tighter so you forfeit a lot of equity in favor of an easier decision on the flop.

good post

And still far from convinced of the preflop call.

lol, strange post

what are you confused about?


how can you not know what i'm talking about here?

how about using logic to explain why. that might actually add something to this discussion instead of saying "still not convinced" when the proof that it is an easy call is right on this page

Do you think most of the hands he mentioned are folding pre flop? They aren't.

If you think folding or 3betting is better than calling, tell us why.

No, i tought he mentioned hands that are going to shove the flop, and obv he does not with undepairs. But prolly misunderstood the post. As for the pre call, im just eager to hear what so common leaks players have that we can exploit them IP with KJs readless 60bb eff. Cause when not even be able narrow his opening range no clue what are his postflop betting tendencies etc, i find it almost impossible to define correct enough ranges to exploit villain. Like how we make sure that we dont fold too much against c-bets for instance. I just find folding to be superior in this case cause it includes so much less guessing and feels more solid.

Considering BB jams so often here prf, folding is fine IMO.

thank you everyone for taking the time to respond.

We have position against a random deep in a $5 tournament. We both have heaps of chips but we cover. Our hand plays well even against a tight opening range. It should be fairly easy to create good situations and avoid bad ones postflop.

This is part of why calling is good. We need 35% against the BB and the only situation in which we lose by calling his shove is if he is shoving 99+/AJ+/KQs. We can have a lot of confidence in him jamming wider than that, and we likely have somewhere between 38%-42% equity.

Its other villian that I'm concerned about after BB shoves.

Why? We have an easy fold when he calls or reshoves.