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BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab)

07-18-2017 , 06:46 AM
Guys, can you help me out with math decision? I'm still a noob with math, only what I know is the potodds to call. What do we calculate more to make a call or fold or raise...?

Poker Stars, $10 Buy-in (75/150 blinds, 20 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 7,592 (50.6 bb)
BB: 6,158 (41.1 bb)
UTG+1: 7,236 (48.2 bb)
UTG+2: 6,488 (43.3 bb)
MP1: 9,248 (61.7 bb)
MP2: 4,293 (28.6 bb)
MP3: 10,689 (71.3 bb)
CO: 6,750 (45 bb)
Hero (BTN): 6,580 (43.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with K J
4 folds, MP3 raises to 300, CO folds, Hero calls 300, 2 folds

Flop: (1,005) 4 A T (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (1,005) 7 (2 players)
MP3 bets 450, Hero ...?


We have to call 450, if I call, total pot will be 1905, so we have 23% to call, 450/1905=0.23

And now...? His range? This range is what I gave him

Board: 4AT*7

*******Equity***Winst***Split

MP3****78.31%**75.05%***3.26%*{ 44+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, A9o+, KJo+, QJo }
BU*****21.69%**18.43%***3.26%*{ KdJs }

So I have 21% equity here to his range and 18,4%win to his range? (Also my question about this range is how we calculate them without Equilab but I think it's maybe a overthinking case ?)

edit: Also what is his bluff odds? How many can he bet here to fold my better hand? Probably I should add more bluffhands in his range? Or if he didnt bet, how many can I bet here to fold his better hand? Like 55-66,88-99

Last edited by PokerGnome.; 07-18-2017 at 06:59 AM.
BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) Quote
07-18-2017 , 07:40 AM
Sooooo you're a bit all over the place here, but let's start at the beginning.

First of all, I wouldn't flat KJo pre, I'd much rather 3-b/f though that isn't *that* big of a mistake.
When villain checks on that board otf I'd start barreling. Most of his hands w/o sd-value are going to c-b, so it's unlikely that we'll get to the sd with K-hi and win. Therefore you want to start betting w your hand which has decent equity+feq vs his range but can't really call down.

Secondly, the range you assigned him is pretty off imo. Sure, he has some weak Ax, but he's betting most Ax otf and not delayed ott. He's also not going to bet every pp on the Turn, and he's probably betting all his gutshots on the Flop.

I'd advise you to step a bit away from the math-aspect and rather work on fundamentals like range-assessment etc.
BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) Quote
07-18-2017 , 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panny1
Sooooo you're a bit all over the place here, but let's start at the beginning.

First of all, I wouldn't flat KJo pre, I'd much rather 3-b/f though that isn't *that* big of a mistake.
When villain checks on that board otf I'd start barreling. Most of his hands w/o sd-value are going to c-b, so it's unlikely that we'll get to the sd with K-hi and win. Therefore you want to start betting w your hand which has decent equity+feq vs his range but can't really call down.

Secondly, the range you assigned him is pretty off imo. Sure, he has some weak Ax, but he's betting most Ax otf and not delayed ott. He's also not going to bet every pp on the Turn, and he's probably betting all his gutshots on the Flop.

I'd advise you to step a bit away from the math-aspect and rather work on fundamentals like range-assessment etc.
Agree, agree, agree

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BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) Quote
07-19-2017 , 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panny1
Sooooo you're a bit all over the place here, but let's start at the beginning.

First of all, I wouldn't flat KJo pre, I'd much rather 3-b/f though that isn't *that* big of a mistake.
When villain checks on that board otf I'd start barreling. Most of his hands w/o sd-value are going to c-b, so it's unlikely that we'll get to the sd with K-hi and win. Therefore you want to start betting w your hand which has decent equity+feq vs his range but can't really call down.

Secondly, the range you assigned him is pretty off imo. Sure, he has some weak Ax, but he's betting most Ax otf and not delayed ott. He's also not going to bet every pp on the Turn, and he's probably betting all his gutshots on the Flop.

I'd advise you to step a bit away from the math-aspect and rather work on fundamentals like range-assessment etc.

Thanks for your explanation, I understand what you mean. In other threads already mentioned creatin range for opponent is not that easy.
Do you maybe know how I can improve with shaping range for opponent?

About the line: 3bettin with KJ ? I mostly do that with better hands. KJ is for me here mostly flat or fold. Is this something like for balancin range ? 3bet/fold?

read something global about balancin but did not really focuses on

Last edited by PokerGnome.; 07-19-2017 at 05:45 AM.
BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) Quote
07-19-2017 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerGnome.

About the line: 3bettin with KJ ? I mostly do that with better hands. KJ is for me here mostly flat or fold. Is this something like for balancin range ? 3bet/fold?
This is a really important concept for taking your game to the next level. 3-betting strong hands is good but if you only 3-bet strong hands your game becomes very exploitable. So you have to 3-bet some other stuff to balance your range. The question is what else to 3b.

One way to balance your range is to 3b a very polarized range, meaning you 3b the top of your range for value and the bottom of your range as complete bluffs. That's not easy for less experienced players to do, however, because it takes guts to 3b bluff.

So another way to add some balance is to 3b hands that are decent but don't play well in multiway pots and/or against raising ranges. Hands like KJo/ATo/QTo are perfect examples. They don't flop great so your main objective is to win the pot preflop, but they at least have some value if you get called (compared to a complete bluff). This is especially effective in the SB because these hands play terribly out of position. That's why so many players adopt a 3b or fold approach in the SB.

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BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) Quote
07-20-2017 , 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
This is a really important concept for taking your game to the next level. 3-betting strong hands is good but if you only 3-bet strong hands your game becomes very exploitable. So you have to 3-bet some other stuff to balance your range. The question is what else to 3b.

One way to balance your range is to 3b a very polarized range, meaning you 3b the top of your range for value and the bottom of your range as complete bluffs. That's not easy for less experienced players to do, however, because it takes guts to 3b bluff.

So another way to add some balance is to 3b hands that are decent but don't play well in multiway pots and/or against raising ranges. Hands like KJo/ATo/QTo are perfect examples. They don't flop great so your main objective is to win the pot preflop, but they at least have some value if you get called (compared to a complete bluff). This is especially effective in the SB because these hands play terribly out of position. That's why so many players adopt a 3b or fold approach in the SB.

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Thanks ! Need to update now my charts in equilab
BU Kd Js Turnplay SD math and range decision (equilab) Quote

      
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