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Bluff catching Bluff catching

04-21-2017 , 04:03 PM
    Pacific, $0.45 Buy-in (40/80 blinds, 8 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37708972

    Hero (SB): 5,467 (68.3 bb)
    BB: 5,944 (74.3 bb)
    UTG+1: 5,021 (62.8 bb)
    UTG+2: 3,514 (43.9 bb)
    MP1: 6,202 (77.5 bb)
    MP2: 4,780 (59.8 bb)
    MP3: 11,517 (144 bb)
    CO: 2,721 (34 bb)
    BTN: 4,834 (60.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with T 7 :: ::
    2 folds, MP1 calls 80, MP2 calls 80, MP3 calls 80, CO folds, BTN calls 80, Hero completes

    Flop: (552) 2 8 T (6 players)
    Hero bets 220, 3 folds, MP3 calls 220, BTN folds

    Turn: (992) Q (2 players)
    MP3 bets 496, Hero calls 496

    River: (1,984) K (2 players)
    MP3 bets 998, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: 1,984 pot
    Final Board: 2 8 T Q K
    Hero mucked T 7 :: :: and lost (-804 net)
    MP3 mucked and won 1,984 (1,180 net)



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    As many were limping and with that hand I decided to try to get lucky on the flop for a small price.
    I think I had to bet stronger on the flop, maybe pot sized. Villain is a loose player (he was 56/28 in 25 hands,) in a previous hand he open raised 3x with 92suited, in others he was bluffing, so I think he might try to bluff me. On the turn I x/c because I was not sure if he has Qx or J9 and that K on the river did not help me too much, so I folded. How do you play this kind of hands against this type of players? Do you try to bluff catch them or just give up on the turn when a scary card comes in?
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-22-2017 , 08:01 AM
    Don't bet the flop. With this many players and this weak a hand you risk value owning yourself too often and can't continue to punish draws when OOP on the turn with no idea of opponents hand strength.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-22-2017 , 03:30 PM
    Thanks for your opinion.

    If you had AT would you bet? How much?
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-22-2017 , 05:10 PM
    I wouldn't have AT here because I would be iso raising pre flop given AT is smashing a Limper's range.

    With T7 here I would check call flop and evaluate turn.

    Assuming I miss clicked and didn't raise AT here I would bet like 75% pot OTF to charge draws the maximum and get value from worse hands.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-22-2017 , 05:43 PM
    I mostly agree with your thoughts, maybe a pot size bet would be better against these loose players.

    The problem at these stakes is that being almost the last one to act in a mw pot, you had to raise at least 10x to isolate and even some guys would call you with any 2 cards expecting to get lucky on the flop, sometimes they do. Imagine you iso raise 10x and get 2 callers. Then QJ2 appears, one of those guys can have something like Q5o, you are behind and cannot call a huge bet. That is why at these stakes and when the people on the table is too loose, I'd limp more than usual and raise only with ATB, AJ+ or TT+, unless there are some folds and I am in position, so I open to my usual range. Not sure if this is a good aproach in these situations.
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-23-2017 , 06:22 AM
    I don't agree with your reasoning. Firstly I think something like 5x would get the job done (table dependant). Secondly we want people to put money into the pot with worse hands. This is how we make money as we flop better than Q5 the majority of the time. What we don't want is to go multi way vs undefined ranges with a hand that plays best vs 1 or 2 players.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-23-2017 , 06:34 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Igotsevens
    I don't agree with your reasoning. Firstly I think something like 5x would get the job done (table dependant).

    Secondly we want people to put money into the pot with worse hands. This is how we make money as we flop better than Q5 the majority of the time. What we don't want is to go multi way vs undefined ranges with a hand that plays best vs 1 or 2 players.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums
    I agree that this is the standard on any stakes besides micro (maybe sometimes on low stakes too.)

    In this hand that I posted, it is a mw pot with 6 people including myself, according to theory of 3x+1x for each limper I should raise to 7x, this kind of tables people don't care about your raise, they want to see a flop no matter what. Some go all in with marginal hands like T4o and get lucky against AK or any strong hand. I know that in the long run is EV+, but sometimes it gets frustrating.
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-23-2017 , 07:27 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cpf27
    I know that in the long run is EV+
    ...
    Bluff catching Quote
    04-24-2017 , 01:29 PM
    flop bet is good, but i check turn and see what opp is doing, also check/call river .
    Bluff catching Quote

          
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