#Game No : 667349324
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 667349324 *****
$25/$50 Blinds No Limit Holdem - ***
Tournament #61149786 $22 + $2 - Table #12 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: prorok_1 ( $4,177 )
Seat 2: MaPoulet ( $5,012 )
Seat 3: MLBman217 ( $4,584 )
Seat 4: CorleonePago ( $8,308 )
Seat 5: london_ace ( $4,118 )
Seat 6: MrDuDe89 ( $2,578 )
Seat 7: APJennings ( $5,365 )
Seat 9: rokla1 ( $3,659 )
Seat 10: pojebaniec87 ( $2,199 )
CorleonePago posts small blind [$25]
london_ace posts big blind [$50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ A, K ]
MrDuDe89 raises [$131]
APJennings folds
rokla1 folds
pojebaniec87 calls [$131]
prorok_1 calls [$131]
MaPoulet folds
MLBman217 folds
CorleonePago calls [$106]
london_ace raises [$500]
MrDuDe89 folds
pojebaniec87 folds
prorok_1 calls [$419]
CorleonePago folds
** Dealing flop ** [ A, 3, Q ]
london_ace bets [$999]
prorok_1 calls [$999]
** Dealing turn ** [ Q]
london_ace bets [$999]
prorok_1 raises [$2,628]
london_ace folds


Hey,

I've got no reads.

I had to post this hand up , it was really difficult to make this fold, i felt so terrible after i folded , i was left with 1.5k (although the blinds were still small ish) I just don't like playing a big pot with a hand like TPTK because we're only likely to be beaten at showdown. The problem is i found it difficult to control the potsize, because the pot was pretty big anyhow.....so pot control was out of the question. As you can see I was trying to control the pot size by betting pretty small otf...thoughts on this?

OTT the board paired, i looked at it as a scared card but at the same time i thought it's very unlikely for V to call the flop bet with a hand like QK, QJ, , the only hand i that's calling me is AQ/AA/QQ , but i think QQ/AA would be 3-bet pre and i also think AQ would of folded to the 3-bet pre....

so i was just lost in the hand....and i'm just thinking it was prolly correc to shove the turn. I just don't know what we are beating when V calls?

I'm not sure if v bluffed hero of the the best hand either...so yeah thoughts on this hand would be appreciated.

thanks.

I probably check turn in your spot. As played, not a terrible fold, gotta wonder if your turn sizing induced action though or made worse aces value shove as it looks your turn bet like it's designed to do exactly what you did (bet/fold). It's a real ugly turn spot to be in, he does have a lot of kq qj type of hands that peel the flop, see people peel with these all the time. But he also has worse aces and possibly flush draws that you induced action from?

If you are really trying to control the pot size, why are you betting near the entire pot on the turn? Check turn, as played call 1.5k to win 5.5k, cry when he turns over AQ.

I never bet the entire pot OTT , I bet 999 , which is a quarter of the pot , i made the exact same sizing otf as well...

i just can't see how we can control the pot size , if anything i should bet more otf and be prepared to shove most turns....?

i've got no idea what villains flop peeling range is in this hand?

draws are out of the question imo , unless he's a bad player...

Flop sizing is fine. Bigger is not better here imo. He is folding all underpairs regardless of sizing and he probably doesnt have too many Ax in his range other than AK and AQ. Get value out of Qx and flushdraws. I kinda like the blockbet on the turn but checking to induce isn't awful either. It's so hard to get called by worse.

Almost all of his flushdraws will have at least a gutshot to go with it. Also dont underestimate how many bad players are out there

All in all he either has us crushed (aka <5%) or he has a combodraw and we have roughly 75% equity. Personally I think his range is weighted more to trips+, mostly because our line looks stupid strong.

If you're not prepared to gii then your flop sizing shouldn't be so big. You bet 2/3 pot. Villain's range to call a flop bet (where you're ahead) should be fairly narrow so i'd bet less.

After being so much on the flop you should be pretty much forced to go with your hand now. The Q ott i think is a pretty decent card for your hand since it reduces the number of AQ combos villain can have, even though AQ is right in villains range based on his pre-flop actions. Hard to imagine villain has any other hand with a Q in it unless he somehow got to the flop with a hand like KsQs.

how much would u had bet otf @ dragons_Egg

you said bet less, so i'm guessing you'll make it 500-650?

Just bet 1/2 pot otf. We have around 3600 otf and the pot is about 1500, so if we bet 1/2 pot otf, we're gonna have 1 PSB left for the turn. 1/2 pot won't give him the right price to draw with anything that he isn't gii on this flop anyway, and 1/2 pot is also a size that we might bluff on this board since it only has to get through 33% of the time to be profitable (even if you don't have to worry too much about balancing against most of these players, it's good to stay consistent in spots like this imo). It's much more unlikely that we get played back at or called weak when we bet 2/3 pot and 2/3 pot doesn't accomplish anything that 1/2 pot doesn't as well. We'll have <1 PSB left ott either way and he isn't getting the right price either way, so there's just many more upsides to betting 1/2 pot. When we bet 2/3 pot, we're kinda committed to the pot no matter what turn peels off. Even if the turn is a spade or a Q, he'll still have all the worse hands in his range and he's very likely to be betting them if we check (maybe not Qx), so we can't really fold when there's so much money in the pot.

@Drlifeisgood ,

thanks , I agree.

Idea: since we are OOP and there is a raise and 3 calls b4 us, how about a larger raise pre? Can we make it 1.5 x pot (700ish) here and take it down? We kind of have carte blanche with our hand here. We can call pretty much anything, and taking down a pot without contest cannot be underestimated.

When you 3bet so large preflop in that situation at less than ~80bbs effective you can't really consider folding that board I wouldn't think , not after you include the understood cbet. Your 3b was 10bbs, if you get a call with dead money and you cbet half pot for instance that's 15 more bbs. Given his passive preflop play I would definitely remove premiums from his range and though some would disagree I don't think AQ would raise you on the turn. Basically it's 33 I'd be worried about with a slight chance of AQ. Against that preflop line I wouldn't be surprised to see AJ, A8, a counterfeited A3 that won't give up, semi-bluffs, air...

Personally I would rate the player as weak, unless you know he is aggressive limper maniac type... Limping and calling a big raise suggest connectors and weak pairs hoping to hit unless you know otherwise... And when weak players attack it's normally time to get out of Dodge... I would probably bet a little more on flop to protect but you send the same message with yours... When the second Q comes in KQ QJ QT are scary possibilities, not to mention 33 from flop, so I would pot control check and then call small bets on river to pick up bluffs... If it's a big bet from a weak player then it's normally the goods... If the player is capable of check raising FD it would probably have happened on flop and then it's about your reads...

While KQ, QJ and QT are possible and likely hands he can also have K10, KJ and J10 of spades. Your flop bet is fine, as someone mentioned you can make it a bit smaller.
On the turn you need to bet more. As mentioned you are actually inducing a bluff here, it looks really weak betting the same amount. It looks like your betting small to have the option to fold.

If you wanna have pot control you can just check back the flop. His range almost entirely consists of small pairs and KQ, QJ and potentially AQ. He will rarely hold a flushdraw so a spade isnt that scary. Most of which will fold to your cbet but what you really want is to sqeeze out a bet from those hand.
If you checkback the flop and the Q comes he might take a stab with 99 thinking you might have a pair yourself like tens or jacks that might fold. Not saying this is the better play but it has it's merits.

As played I think calling is the best option.