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Old 06-13-2012, 06:22 PM   #1
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AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 9 players

CO: t4980 99.60 BBs
BTN: t5365 107.30 BBs
SB: t2814 56.28 BBs
BB: t1343 26.86 BBs
Hero (UTG): t3100 62 BBs
UTG+1: t4525 90.50 BBs
UTG+2: t3000 60 BBs
MP1: t2665 53.30 BBs
MP2: t1660 33.20 BBs

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to t150, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises to t450, 1 fold, MP2 calls t450, 4 folds, Hero calls t300

Flop: (t1425) 3 A 9 (3 players)
Hero bets t669, UTG+2 calls t669, MP2 folds

Turn: (t2763) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets t1851, UTG+2 calls t1851

River: (t6465) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets t50, UTG+2 calls t30 all in

V has only been at the table for two hands. I know I spewed this hand up so bad. Advice needed on all streets. (My excuse is that I was on 2p2 at the same time) haha.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:30 PM   #2
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

"never flat a 3b oop with AK" is probably a very good rule.

4b/call. or just nit-fold it.

c/r flop. if it checks through get it in on later streets.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:40 PM   #3
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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Originally Posted by desperad0oo7 View Post
"never flat a 3b oop with AK" is probably a very good rule.

4b/call. or just nit-fold it.

c/r flop. if it checks through get it in on later streets.
Thinking of "rules" in poker is not a good idea, but Im 4betting/C this pre.

Im betting the flop.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:09 PM   #4
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

This rule is an exception imo
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:45 AM   #5
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

i think pre is fine in a 4$ 3way, but jamming is better with these stacks.
def not folding anywhere pre w/o a solid read.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:05 AM   #6
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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i think pre is fine in a 4$ 3way, but jamming is better with these stacks.
def not folding anywhere pre w/o a solid read.
I don't understand jamming a 62BB stack, I see you putting it a lot but isn't the stack size to big to jam?

No solids reads, V just joined the table.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:25 AM   #7
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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I don't understand jamming a 62BB stack, I see you putting it a lot but isn't the stack size to big to jam?

No solids reads, V just joined the table.
1/3 of the stacks are already in the middle.

you wont see me say jam pre if someone opens 2.5x and its folded to us(or he gets 1-2 callers) 60BB eff.

stacksizes in relation to the pot > pure stacksizes.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:29 AM   #8
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

im making it 1350 pre and shoving any flop

Last edited by martinhoward.bhbc@; 06-14-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #9
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

Thanks all for input, trying to learn and move forward.

V ended up 3betting me w/ 99
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:13 AM   #10
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

I think c/r otf is better. As played you're right to gii.

If you asked me a year ago I'd say to 4b/c or jam pre. Now I often flat (possibly a lateral movement). But OPR/decide has to be the best move. If he's a losing player go. If he's a reg fold.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:15 AM   #11
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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If he's a losing player go. If he's a reg fold.
why is it so?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:27 AM   #12
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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Originally Posted by desperad0oo7 View Post
why is it so?
I just find that flatting AK and JJ/under has become beyond standard from regs below 27.50 lately (from utg2's position). I see QQ flatted lots too. At best we're hoping for QQ+AK from a good reg. What's your line if you didn't have stats but you recognized him as a solid winner?

And I'm happy to take my chances against a fish ofc.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:34 AM   #13
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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I just find that flatting AK and JJ/under has become beyond standard from regs below 27.50 lately (from utg2's position). I see QQ flatted lots too. At best we're hoping for QQ+AK from a good reg. What's your line if you didn't have stats but you recognized him as a solid winner?

And I'm happy to take my chances against a fish ofc.
a good reg 3b range is much wider than QQ+/AK but I know you know that so you're probably talking about his 4b-calling range. The power form AK comes from it's FE against hands that it doesn't crush or splits with. things like 99-JJ (since you think they fold everything but QQ+/AK) and randome stuff people might 3 bet with. if given the choice in the long run I'd rather play 9Ts IP than AK oop postflop. But it's the FE of AK and the fact that we're in a good position equity-wise against all but 2 hands when the FE fails. playing it without initiative by flatting the 3b is even worse.

Last edited by desperad0oo7; 06-15-2012 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:53 AM   #14
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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Originally Posted by desperad0oo7 View Post
a good reg 3b range is much wider than QQ+/AK but I know you know that so you're probably talking about his 4b-calling range. The power form AK comes from it's FE against hands that it doesn't crush or splits with. things like 99-JJ (since you think they fold everything but QQ+/AK) and randome stuff people might 3 bet with. if given the choice in the long run I'd rather play 9Ts IP than AK oop postflop. But it's the FE of AK and the fact that we're in a good position equity-wise against all but 2 hands when the FE fails. playing it without initiative by flatting the 3b is even worse.
I can tell you disagree but I wasn't only talking about his 4b/c range. Maybe "good reg" was a bad choice of words. I'm talking about your household micro/low reg who's multitabling and playing super TAG in the first x levels of something like this. I'm not giving that guy any credit for having a bluff range or a 3b/f range. That's just my expectation.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:01 AM   #15
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Re: AKo UTG vs 3bet from unknown

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I can tell you disagree but I wasn't only talking about his 4b/c range. Maybe "good reg" was a bad choice of words. I'm talking about your household micro/low reg who's multitabling and playing super TAG in the first x levels of something like this. I'm not giving that guy any credit for having a bluff range or a 3b/f range. That's just my expectation.
If you think his 3b range is QQ+/AK then I will argue that the correct play is to fold AK pre to his 3b. I still refuse to believe that a regs' default 3bet range is QQ+/AK personally I have a 3bet % of 12% and know many regs who 3bet light alot early in MTTs to set up an image. It's a very +EV play, esp if people are flatting AK oop. so I just don't follow the logic of winning = tighter 3 bet range. as a matter of fact I think the losing player often have a tighter 3b range.

But, in honor of OPR and being readless, a statistic I used to look at alot back in the day to get a better idea about pf ranges when readless is ITM. naturally looser players will have lower ITM% than tighter players regardless whether they're winning or losing. I've seen winners with ITM% as low as 10% and as high as 20%. it also tends to converge much faster than ROI which can be skewed by one bink.

having said that, however, still never flatting AK oop.

Last edited by desperad0oo7; 06-15-2012 at 02:08 AM.
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