Better to 3bet-fold Pre? Opponent was pretty TAG.

Poker Stars $5.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t100 - 9 players - View hand 1903175
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CO: t12135 M = 5.78
Hero (BTN): t26691 M = 12.71
SB: t22606 M = 10.76
BB: t51820 M = 24.68
UTG: t28928 M = 13.78
UTG+1: t21208 M = 10.10
UTG+2: t11115 M = 5.29
MP1: t16432 M = 7.82
MP2: t16519 M = 7.87

Pre Flop: (t2100) Hero is BTN with J A
3 folds, MP1 raises to t1838, 2 folds, Hero calls t1838, 2 folds

Flop: (t5776) 4 J 4 (2 players)
MP1 bets t2888, Hero calls t2888

Turn: (t11552) 3 (2 players)
MP1 bets t3327, Hero folds

std pre, flop call std, turn take like 15 sec and call (make it seem like you were contemplating raising so he doesn't go for thin value on river).

Doing the same pre and otf. Turn im tempted to minraise, since i don't see him having anything doing such a small bet, but alot of worse hands could call at this point. By shoving here i don't think you get much worse to call if hes TAG.

reads on blinds?

pretty ez jam pre

fold/3b pre, folding vs most tags

In this situation I play it all on reads. I'm not three betting this pre, though, at least not here. I like AJs and I'd rather see a flop with this since you're in position. How likely is it he's holding one spade, an ace? That turn bet is darn bold after you called a 50% pot bet on the flop, especially since Villain is out of position. How likely is it he's just firing the second barrel? Is he capable of firing a third barrel on the river? Like I started this response, I think this is played entirely on reads (but I'm a live player and maybe I'm over emphasizing reads for an online game).

i'm not happy too gii pre as he's not r/f much with that stack.
not sure about calling, therefore probably folding

I don't mind the flat pre. If we're r/f'ing pre then think we can do it with hands that have a lot less value than A-Js. But I agree that if we raise and villian ships we have to fold as he's rarely shoving worse than A-J.

On the flop I think we need to r/gii, based on villian only starting with a 20 BB stack. That's as good a flop as your gonna get calling pre with A-J. I think that we get it in a good amount against hands we beat such as flush draws, 77-TT and even OC's if villian thinks that we're just raising something like a FD ourselves.

Haven't thought about everything yet but I'd call the turn for sure. Your hand is pretty strong and your line looks FOS'y and he can barrel with hands you beat like AK or AQ where he holds the As or 99/TT with a spade. We're getting way too good of a price to see the river and our river decision won't be super tough in position.

Why not shove the flop? It's unlikely he has pocket Js, Qs, Ks or As. It's unlikely he's holding a 4. I'm not even sure if he picked up a flush draw on the flop. I think he has a medium pocket pair or AQo (with the turn info I think the Ace is a spade ... hmmm, or maybe the Q). Unless my math is wrong, there's over 10BB in the pot. Ship it on the flop. If he has AQo I think he folds. If he has a medium pocket pair he might call.

Some interesting views. Skinny, isnt a 3b/fold >>>>Jamming,pre ??

To people advocating calling the turn, The problem with just calling turn is that, I may have to face a pot sized shove OTR, and will have to fade a spade & Overcards, to make that river call, and still be doubtful to take down this pot, cause he could even have an overpair/already made hand like a flush. I'm Just nit-folding the Turn to avoid this decision OTR, does that sound ok, or just nitty ?
Plus the fact that he is giving me such good odds to call OTT, is kinda polarizing his range, and if he has fired 2 bullets on this board, He is definitely firing the third one OTR, if the board seems like its getting scarier for AJ/KJ type hand , which is the first hand anyone would put me on.
And with his stack, I can see him shut down OTT with air a LOT of the times, specially since the board got so wet OTT. This small bet from him is what made me fold. If he continued with flop bet sizing I woulda probably gii OTT.

Cborder, what do you mean by FOS'y?

Thunder, I think we lose a lot of value if we just ship it OTF. we kinda give away our range (AJ/KJ/FD) and make his decision easier. Its def sounds like the least messy thing to do, but I think we lose so much value a lot of the times.

I like your reasoning a lot and at first I was thinking "how could you fold to this bet?" but it was an informed decision on your end which I ended up respecting. Now with that said, you obviously can't call turn and fold river, so its a totally polarizing spot. When you get down to it, personally I just call turn to call any river or shove turn, only because you had no business flatting AJs pre if you were gonna fold at some point in this hand on this board.

3921/f pre imo.

EDIT: FOS = full of s**t

if he's bad tag I'd could flat pre. If you 3bet i think you should jam.

Ott it's the same thing again raise or fold. He' gonna be with 1/2 PSB otr if you just call.
For me it's a raise since you couldmake him fold QQ or KK (not the easiest thing tho) and you'll make him pay now if he got a fd ott.

first of all 3bet/f is pretty much the worst you can do here (20bb eff.).
and secondly flatting pre looks very bad too if you're folding this turn!

i don't understand what flatting pre has to do with folding turn.

I really think you should not 3b without shoving here (except premiums)
He raised 2.5bb, if you 3b to 5bb you already have a pot of 9bb (including blinds and antes)