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| Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy |
06-09-2012, 02:42 PM
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#1
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newbie
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 21
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AA on KKx flop
Poker Stars, $1.25 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13153461
UTG+2: 3,000 (100 bb)
Hero (MP1): 4,200 (140 bb)
MP2: 2,770 (92.3 bb)
MP3: 4,910 (163.7 bb)
CO: 2,970 (99 bb)
BTN: 2,945 (98.2 bb)
SB: 6,155 (205.2 bb)
BB: 2,900 (96.7 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A  A
UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to 90, MP2 folds, MP3 calls 90, CO folds, BTN calls 90, SB calls 75, BB calls 60
Flop: (450) 2  K  K (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, BTN bets 150, SB raises to 300, 1 fold, Hero?
Is checking the flop ok here? I felt I wasn't going to get better to fold and rarely get worse to call, so there was little value in betting.
As played, what do you do after the BTN bets and the SB checkraises?
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06-09-2012, 06:37 PM
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#2
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Entertainment 720
Posts: 3,816
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Re: AA on KKx flop
I'd probably cbet for like 200~. Fold as played. Problem is SB raises with you still to act as the OR and you have button behind who can still 3b.
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06-09-2012, 06:44 PM
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#3
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,555
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Re: AA on KKx flop
I don't mind check or bet on flop. I'd lean towards betting ~180. your thought process about cbetting is spot on and I'd often check in higher buyins, but people in $1 are so bad and this is easiest street to get value on.
Flop is an easy fold. When someone check/minraises this board with a small army behind they have king or better nearly always
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06-09-2012, 06:50 PM
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#4
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Entertainment 720
Posts: 3,816
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Re: AA on KKx flop
Yeah, I def wouldn't mind a flop check of course. But the main thing is the buy in. I honestly had literally 180~ typed out and deleted it for 200 since it's a $1 mtt lol.
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06-10-2012, 04:50 PM
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#5
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veteran
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,700
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Re: AA on KKx flop
agreed with these guys.
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06-10-2012, 05:43 PM
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#6
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old hand
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: fish pond
Posts: 1,523
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Re: AA on KKx flop
bet 200 otf, and then it's a fold
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06-11-2012, 04:17 AM
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#7
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deviation of equilibrium
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 27,486
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Re: AA on KKx flop
wp if you folded.
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06-11-2012, 11:30 AM
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#8
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: with the wind at our stern...
Posts: 37,723
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Re: AA on KKx flop
I think flop is a pretty simple bet/ fold without any real read that they are capable of shenanigans
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06-11-2012, 01:11 PM
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#9
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newbie
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 21
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Re: AA on KKx flop
Quote:
Originally Posted by furo
wp if you folded.
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Can't tell is sarcastic or not, but yes, I did fold.
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06-11-2012, 01:13 PM
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#10
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: with the wind at our stern...
Posts: 37,723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBreaker
Can't tell is sarcastic or not, but yes, I did fold.
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Don't think it was sarcastic at all. It's a good fold. Betting flop or checking are debatable but I think most will agree to fold with the given action
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06-11-2012, 01:53 PM
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#11
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: yo no soy por aqui
Posts: 15,867
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Re: AA on KKx flop
I'd check the flop with the intention of betting somewhere else. Our hand is good enough to get value from others but not good enough to withstand much heat. I'd like to keep their ranges wide on the flop since there usually won't be many turn or river cards that would make us uncomfortable of our equity in the hand. I think if we check we can let villains improve somehow on the turn and river, be it picking up a draw or just catching a pair that they'd probably call one street with. If you bet the flop and get called you're probably done with that hand because villains range is going to be weighted heavily towards hands that are way ahead and are allowing you to value own yourself. If you check you give yourself a chance to get choose a sizing to maximize risk/reward on the turn and river. If the turn is an offsuit card that doesn't really connect with the board you can check and if it checks through you can bet 150 on the river to induce a hero call or bluff catch attempt. You're getting the same value as a flop bet but you have a lot more information about the hand ranges you're up against and you can make a better decision. By sizing it smaller you can induce a call and if he has a king he'll want to get more value with his hand so he's going to have to raise to something and you can just fold.
Obviously there is some risk to checking the flop, such as giving pocket pairs infinite odds to improve on future streets, but I think this risk is worth it.
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06-12-2012, 01:54 AM
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#12
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veteran
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,700
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Re: AA on KKx flop
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBorders
I'd check the flop with the intention of betting somewhere else. Our hand is good enough to get value from others but not good enough to withstand much heat. I'd like to keep their ranges wide on the flop since there usually won't be many turn or river cards that would make us uncomfortable of our equity in the hand. I think if we check we can let villains improve somehow on the turn and river, be it picking up a draw or just catching a pair that they'd probably call one street with. If you bet the flop and get called you're probably done with that hand because villains range is going to be weighted heavily towards hands that are way ahead and are allowing you to value own yourself. If you check you give yourself a chance to get choose a sizing to maximize risk/reward on the turn and river. If the turn is an offsuit card that doesn't really connect with the board you can check and if it checks through you can bet 150 on the river to induce a hero call or bluff catch attempt. You're getting the same value as a flop bet but you have a lot more information about the hand ranges you're up against and you can make a better decision. By sizing it smaller you can induce a call and if he has a king he'll want to get more value with his hand so he's going to have to raise to something and you can just fold.
Obviously there is some risk to checking the flop, such as giving pocket pairs infinite odds to improve on future streets, but I think this risk is worth it.
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you should post in SS more often lol this changed my mind.
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06-12-2012, 01:56 AM
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#13
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: near your blinds
Posts: 9,407
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Re: AA on KKx flop
I like check otf with so many players since betting there on such a dry flop looks very strong and kind of isolates us against Kx. as played lolfold is good
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06-12-2012, 05:25 AM
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#14
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deviation of equilibrium
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 27,486
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Re: AA on KKx flop
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBreaker
Can't tell is sarcastic or not, but yes, I did fold.
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no, good fold.
cboaders nailed it with his post why check> bet flop and there is no real decision vs a bet and a minraise, simple fold readless and snapfold since SB basically turned his hand face up. c/minraise vs 4 other players in the hand on a paired board is mostly the nuts.
if it goes bet, call i think we can overcall getting a decent price vs 1/3 bets. they will mostly dont bet worse hands OTT 3way.
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