This is the hand just ITM in one of the micro MTTs on PS. Everyone folded to me on the CO and I selected to shove A3o w 18BBs. Now, I know that this is slightly profitable considering the ICM calculations. SB has only 6BBs and I am not that worried about him. And BB seems to be a calculated opp, who has a good idea of ICM and caller gap concept, so he is calling me with top 6-10% of hands only. The questions is - do you think raise/folding to BB reshove is a better option here or is open shoving a more +$EV move?

I have had quite a few similar cases where I am not quite sure what the best + play is. Shoving vs raise/folding bigger stack.

Any suggestions would be extremely helpful!

fold pre

I rly don't like this unless you know that the people left to act are super tight.

Otherwise I would just fold this garbage hand. I hate raggy offsuit aces.

Folding pre w A3o from late position w 18BBs? Don't you guys think this is overly tight? Can you suggest any source that would discuss this? I mean Nash says shove, ICM says shove, common sense says raise/fold. If I am not raising weak Aces in late position to steal blinds, what am I raising with then? I mean I understand we can hate some hands, but how good is this shove vs raise/evaluating in terms of $EV in a long run?

suited connecters, suited one gapers, KQ, most suited aces, PP etc etc

The problem is this hand does not flop well at all so it is best to shove then to raise but I wouldn't shove 17bb with this hand, its just too much.

Thanks for your thoughts. Makes sense! Right, 17BBs is quite a workable stack I suppose...

no a3o plays bad even vs a wide calling range, id rather shove 9ts, does better

+1

Fold pre 100%

18bbs is way too much to be shoving here, it's a fold 100%.

I think you can achive same results with just simply raising pfr to standart size and folding to 3bet. This way you dont risk your whole stack with weak hand.

Thanks a lot for all the replies! Very much appreciated!

I think if it were suited it would probably be a slightly profitable and unexploitable shove, but offsuit i don't think so.. Even then, it's still borderline and a fairly high variance move and you'd be risking your tournament life on a tiny edge. I could see opening if the blinds had a tendency to fold a high percentage of the time to steals, otherwise i would prefer to fold.

İ reviewed the situation and all the replies. Now, if you want my opinion, here it is:

a) Folding preflop is a terrible decision, unless you are a nit and prefer to stay longer in the MTT instead of running for a win. If you are not open raising Ax from BTN vs a tight BB, you probably shouldn't even play an MTT to start with
b) Shoving is +EV in terms of Nash and ICM, but I'd prefer not to rist 18BBs w A3o here. If we were on a ITM or FT bubble, I'd probably shove this with a higher frequency. But generally I don't like this play at the end.
c) Raise/folding to a BB reshove is definitely the best option I like. I can't fold to SB 3b shove, but can easily fold to BB 3b shove, knowing he is a tight player and his range is way stronger than A3o.

All in all, those who were 100% folding pre might have their opinion and I appreciate it, but I surely would ignore this advise, as it makes no sense to me. A3o is in 38% if hands and I am definitely opening this wide from BTN. Plus, Ax is better than T9s if you shove it from late position, as there is less chance of running into a dominating hand. I'd prefer shoving T9s from UTG instead of A3o, as we are called by dominating hands a lot more often and T9s has a better chance of winning in this case that A3o. But from BTN, in no way.

lol

+1

I kinda find it hard to believe that most people here would choose to open fold this w 18bb's in the CO?????
There is absolutely nothing wrong with raising/shoving this hand when it opens folds to you in CO. I think there are merits to both. I prefer a shove to try and discourage a call/re-shove w a marginal hand but I think SOME kind of raise is necessary.
Shoving could be exploitable because of the age old question, "would you shove AA, KK etc.. here?" However, raise/folding could be exploitable if you get an aggro blind who may notice you raise/fold often. But I'm absolutely putting chips in this spot!

Agharazi,
I have a very similiar thread from a few days ago, check it out if you haven't already.

I love how the OP throws around terms while not understanding them , making assumptions based on thin air and asking for opinions while he's not open to being wrong .

This is meant to be an exchange of ideas nothing more. Folding pre is ABSOLUTELY too nitty if it folds to you in the CO in this situation UNLESS players left to act have a high re-steal/3-bet frequency.

Edit: I find it hilarious how offended people get if their opinion isn't shared and even start attacking the OP for not jumping at and agreeing with their suggestions

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Jennifear's push/fold charts have A3o as being just outside the range for a +EV shove from the CO 18BB deep. That chimes with a leak I've found in my own games recently - shoving too wide in general with raggy offsuit hands with a high card.

I see a lot of people in these forums saying that when you're less than 20BB, you're in shove/fold mode. In my experience that's not necessary. You can open between 2-2.25x, get folds a decent amount of the time and if they 3Bet jam on you it's a easy fold.

There are definitely good reasons for opening, folding, and shoving. I would recommend that order as a std in a $2 mtt.

Thanks, bud. I'll definitely look into it!

I absolutely didn't mean to offend anybody. Just don't share some opinions. I actually sometimes argue opinion of stronger and more experienced players/coaches, when something makes less sense to me. And do this not in order to hurt or offend someone or show how smart I am, but rather to challenge an opinion to arrive at a more optimal decision. At the end I can agree with the opinion of a senior poker player, but challenging something definitely makes it more interesting.

Thanks for understanding me, bud!

My friend, why do you love something that is not true? If I don't understand something, I ask for explanation. I actually don't think I misunderstand any of the terms I used. I might be misusing the terms or putting too much emphasis on something that is not applicable in this concrete case, but i believe I understand the terms I use.

What's wrong with making assumptions and challenging opinions? And what do you even mean by assumptions, man? Isn't poker mostly based on assumptions? If it wasn't, there would be no reaon or need for opinions. Plus, what is wrong with my assumptions? Are they not valid at all? I tried my best BTW not to base them on thin air.

I am always happy to accept the fact that I am wrong. I am not ideal, neither is any other poker player. I wouldn't even post if I didn't think I was wrong in many cases. But in this concrete case, I don't agree folding is 100% mandatory. That's it Please don't take my disagreement for an abuse. This is just a discussion.

Agreed 👍

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