Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
99 early position vs big 3bet 99 early position vs big 3bet

02-05-2016 , 03:57 PM
    Poker Stars, $3 Buy-in (200/400 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 10,036 (25.1 bb)
    BB: 4,567 (11.4 bb)
    UTG+1: 19,330 (48.3 bb)
    Hero (UTG+2): 32,135 (80.3 bb)
    MP1: 3,859 (9.6 bb)
    MP2: 6,012 (15 bb)
    MP3: 30,804 (77 bb)
    CO: 1,248 (3.1 bb)
    BTN: 10,771 (26.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 9 9
    UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to 1,000, 5 folds, SB raises to 4,000, BB folds, Hero raises to 32,085 and is all-in, SB calls 5,986 and is all-in

    Flop: (20,822) 9 J 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    Turn: (20,822) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (20,822) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 20,822 pot
    Final Board: 9 J 6 2 J
    SB showed A Q and lost (-10,036 net)
    Hero showed 9 9 and won 20,822 (10,786 net)


    As far as I remember this was a 2nd hand in a row that I opened. Despite it I don't think he 3bets much wider than usually with this sizing so should probably fold it. What do you think?
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-05-2016 , 04:30 PM
    I would fold this, his sizing means you have zero fold equity and his range looks very strong here, you're flipping at best here most of the time. Nice result though.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-05-2016 , 04:37 PM
    Yeah, a 3-b for 40% of his stack is a huge show of strength. That's the amateur "I want to get chips in but don't want to scare him off" move, usually reserved for AA/KK.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 03:39 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
    Yeah, a 3-b for 40% of his stack is a huge show of strength. That's the amateur "I want to get chips in but don't want to scare him off" move, usually reserved for AA/KK.
    yeah that's what I thought....given you were UTG+2 and it went all the way around to the SB and he 4-bet you big and is saying he's pretty much committed to the hand I think you're basically just set-mining 99 here so I'd fold to his re-raise given your stack size of 80 BB.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 06:10 AM
    Here is the way I process spots like these. I break things down into % ranges.

    99 is right around the top 5% of hands. You opened from early position. Assuming you have not been deviating from standard play (ie playing too tight or too loose) it can be assumed your range is somewhere in the top 8% - 10% of hands.

    If he is willing to 3 bet his value range should be in the top 1/2 of your range. Top 4% - 5% of hands.

    If his range is about 5%, you really want something in or near the top 1/2 of his range to continue playing. So you should be looking for the top 2.5% - 3% of hands here. 99 is outside of that range.

    Now before you fold, double check your analysis. 99 is top 5%. Is there anyway possible he could be 3 betting 8% - 10% here? Were you overly active that makes you a target? Was he overly aggressive? Did you notice any errors in his game, for instance over valuing smaller and medium pairs that may cause him to 3 bet wide by the error of over valuing his hand?

    If nothing comes up that would cause you to believe he is 3 betting more than 5%, then fold. Also note that if 99 is top 5% and his range is only 5% at best, you are either behind his range or at the very bottom and this is where you never want to be.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 08:03 AM
    ^
    explained really clearly
    thx
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 10:37 AM
    Well, that was an extensive explanation. But is it any better than simply putting our hand and his range (let's say 99+,AQs+,AQo+) into equilab or any similar program, then we get our equity which equals 37.5% => we need to get in 9k to win 20.8k =~43% equity needed for a breakeven stackoff (assuming he's never folding - but that's obvious)?
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 11:29 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marecki
    Well, that was an extensive explanation. But is it any better than simply putting our hand and his range (let's say 99+,AQs+,AQo+) into equilab or any similar program, then we get our equity which equals 37.5% => we need to get in 9k to win 20.8k =~43% equity needed for a breakeven stackoff (assuming he's never folding - but that's obvious)?
    Because you can't do that in the heat of the moment. Pregler's approach is a good shorthand that can be used to make decisions in real time...assuming you have a grasp of % ranges. It's really helpful for people who aren't as mathematically inclined as others and can't do equity calculations quickly.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 05:21 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marecki
    Well, that was an extensive explanation. But is it any better than simply putting our hand and his range (let's say 99+,AQs+,AQo+) into equilab or any similar program, then we get our equity which equals 37.5% => we need to get in 9k to win 20.8k =~43% equity needed for a breakeven stackoff (assuming he's never folding - but that's obvious)?
    You can't plug hands into equilab while playing. This is a way to obtain a decision point in the midst of a real game situation. Gets to the same answer in real time.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote
    02-06-2016 , 06:53 PM
    I like folding but shoving isn't the worst play.. I think we're flipping most of the time here.
    99 early position vs big 3bet Quote

          
    m